Artists vs users...

I do not really see a big difference between users and artists anyhow, except for more "likes" in soundcloud etc... And I suppose most users hear would like to become an artist one day... When & how would you transfer from a user to an artist on Equipboard?

Why don't you make artist an "attribute" of a users which could be enabled/disabled depending on arbitrary criteria?

I do, I was once a pro artist in the sense equipboard means, though at a very small scale. I didn't have a day job. I toured. My band was on the radio regionally heacy college rotation and even some major clear channel stations around our hometown). That's a "pro artist" at the lowest level. I don't know that it would have met the equipboard standards for 'pro' if equipboard had beena round back then. My band was not that big, even regionally, but most of my income was derived from my writing and performing with a little supplementary income as a guitar teacher. But compared to most of our users?

Then there's my musical life now. I make music when I have the time, have a non-music career/day-job and spend more time playing for my son than adults. I rarely gig and seldom see a royalty check for my past work. I don't have recording, publishing or licensing contracts anymore and my musical output is so sparse it wouldn't be worth my while to call up any of my industry buddies. I have not been on the radio for the better part of a decade. I haven't legitimately released a record in at least that long. That makes me a regular user on equipboard and it makes the rest of the regular users regular users. We're not pros. We do not derive all of our income from tour revenue, album sales and merchandising. Many of us are debatably artists in any meaningful sense of the word. A good half of us are children, literally, as in minors who are still learning to play/program/compose.

There's a vetting process for pro pages though sometimes BS pages leak through.

However, it would be cool to have our pages organized the same way as pro pages since mine is a total hodgepodge right now. Those of us with tons of gear and software have major clutter issues :-(

but if you want to talk about a fight on Equipboard, artists versus users? users win all day! we have the numbers, and a lot of the artists are oldsters like Jimmy Page or wimpy little techno-pansies like deadmaus. I would love to take on Pagey.... kick his ass and steal his gear!

Jim, thanks for taking the time to respond I think I die not make myself clear and you actually seem to confirm my statement.

Some of these "children" here might one day become a "pro" who would make most of their money by composing and/or performing music. Others might currently be a "pro" (or semi-pro, like yourself) but might, at some stage in life, become a regular user again for various, legitimate reasons.

All of them are users (or even artists) but being a "pro" is merely an attribute that could change over time (in both directions).

If you look at it from that point, the data model for this web application should be easier to implement and maintain as well. It should also be easier to categorise the equipment of normal, non-pro users...

Might be, maybe could, someday I suppose. When people do something professional grade and meet with some international recognition and legitimate financial remuneration then I guess they get a pro page. Til then, pay yer dues. Pack into the smelly old van and traipse around the country eating rammen and you might get to be an eqipboard professional one day. Personally I think recognition can be overrated and trucking around with your band or DJ gear is something you do for the love of it, not to get a gear page next to Jimmy Page's. I also think that the majority of people classed as 'pros' on EB are darned famous and they have certainly paid their dues, probably for decades. They ahd a lot of luck, but they also put in a lot of hard work that the average'user' may have been unwilling to put in themselves. Hell, I drew the line an dropped out after awhile and went hobbyist. Maybe I shoulda hung in there, but I just like good food and fine French wine too much to deal with the yoyo income of a middling music career.

to be clear, I am not a pro musician, semi-pro, or whatever.... I am a hobbyist with a lot of experience. I used to be a professional, but I haven't met that criteria in a decade. The day job is easier, plus I have a kid.

You need to talk to the 2 site admins because based on what they have said to me and posted on theforum it seems like you're missing the real point of this site. They were inspired to do this based on a search for a comprehensive rig rundown for one particular guitarist/composer/rocker. To them its mostly about the pro pages and coming up with a comprehensive list of instruments and tools for each professional. The personal equipboards are a way to generate gear reviews which in turn draws them advertising revenue from gear manufacturers as does their blog. That keeps the servers paid, so it matters, but this site is a resource for copping the sounds of famous guys by design.

I think if you want to see a site that puts 13 year old kids with dfruityloops on an equal footing with Flood and Daniel Lanois then you should start it yourself. Maybe there's something to your idea. Me? I like a bit of elitism in my art, even if I didn't make it to the inner circle of successful and notorious musicians. But I predate viral youtube videos, mashups, dubstep and other stuff like that. I had a lot of trouble transitioning to the modern music revenue models even though they are cool and inspiring when you see them working for people.

I mostly come here for the reviews though. Great place to swap info about gear that's hard to find in person.... and a great way to get perspective from kids, bedroom oldsters, touring musicians and local wedding/bar band types to see what applications certain pieces of kit are working in before you risk buying it.... I still would like to see user pages have the same format as pro pages though.

I think I still did not make myself clear.

I DO think this site should clearly distinguish between users and "pro"-fessional users. And this should be done on arbitrary, objective and verifiable criteria. The main purpose of this website is to be able to check which gear is used by your favorite artists or to see which artists have similar gear to you.

The only difference is that I see "pro" users as a sub-set of "users" with a specific "attribute" (Pro) which could be set (or unset) if it meets the arbitrary criteria specified above. Users should obviously not be able to trigger this attribute themselves. Users should be able to propose a new "Pro" based on evidence which should be validated by others.

Nevermind, I assume you've got more knowledge about music than about computers and IT ;-)

way more... I'm a dinosaur with computers and modern developments in IT go right by me unless it effects MIDI implementation, recording or my day job. But you also are not great at explaining yourself. I mean no offense with this question, but is English your first language? Either way you have a tautologous turn of phrase that turned my head, but I am worn out after a long day at the god awful office.

I do think I follow you this time. Right now there is a system to verify pros that's handled by the admins (or more accurately an app they created). It might be interesting to make it user verified like gear sightings have become. Here' the other thing.... while occasionally a pro will look at his page, create an account and add to himself, the pro pages are not maintained by the artists themselves (wouldn't that be cool), they are generated by user contributions, so a pro user is generally an oxymoron. If the famous dudes were adding or at least verifying the content on their pages I get it, but 99.9% of the time they are not.

English is probably my fourth language but nevertheless...

It's unlikely the vast majority of "Pro's" would actually be updating this website. If they would actually update any website it would probably be one of the classic social media website, not some nerdy gear website. Why would they spend any time on sharing where they get their mustard from, encouraging copy cats that could be better, while they could be shagging groupies or begging for some beers. :-)

Therefore it's up to users to contribute and validate data (based on provided evidence).
Data being for instance: 1) Creating new users/artists/bands 1) Proposing if a user/artist a "Pro" or not 2) Gear a specific "Pro" is using.

From an IT perspective, I see two "object types" here with a N-to-N relation: users/artists and equipment: One user/artist can have many equipment, one piece of equipment can be used by multiple users/artists. The fact that a user/artist is a "Pro" is merely an attribute of the user/artist object type which can change over time.

Maybe if the admins would read this thread, they'd understand what I'm after.

I thought so...

admins....

one of them just had twins and the other is his best friend so they are caught up with family stuff, bump this thread periodically so they see it when they are back in action.

remember, not everything should be reduced to formula/function mathematically just because it can... I had a really classical education that was logic-heavy, but not everything life can or should be reduced to a logic problem.... I had trouble with this until I was 30. Furthermore, what you suggest is terribly democratic. Truly direct democracy is flawed on a lot of levels, but mainly because it is dependent on prompt participation. On the internet its an epic fail. The people like me with ample time to putter from work while we're on hold with insurers and such will skew the vote on who is pro and who is not until other folks have time to cast dissenting votes. The level of disorganization this will introduce will make the duplicate items problem look like nothing. There's a human, social element to what you suggest that you have completely failed to analyze... which would be tough due to the unpredictable factors involved in a timely user participation in decisions.

probably none of your fans has made a page for you... the site is user-maintained so perhaps no one in your following is into equipboard? the pro pages are user generated, the staff doesn't just troll around looking for bands to add. We just correct msitakes, elete inappropriate content and in the case of the Admins write the code that implements upgrades.

We really appreciate you not just jumping in and creating your own artist page(s). As far as ASCAP and BMI? We don't really consider that as criteria. For istnance, I've been with BMI since the late 90s... I wouldn't call myself a pro anymore though. I'm not colelcting regualr royalty checks nor am I deriving a alrge portion of my income from performance. In the professional sense I've been inactive since my most succesful band brke up. But I'm with BMI and until recently I kept up my membership and NARAS and all that... so you see what i'm saying. I'm not sure if we consider soundcloud followers. The admins would have to tell you.

Now for the kicker... we don't stop people from creating vanity pages for themselves or their musical friends regardless of professional or amateur status... we do periodically police them and dump the bogus ones that slipped by whatever little app the admins have that auto-polices. Typically there's a lot of conversation in the secret moderator forum between the Admins and Mods to decide which middling acts with a mainly internet following should stay or go because the criteria can feel a little grey sometimes and we all have different opinions on how to interpret that term 'professional'... but if you really want to, please go ahead and create some pro pages for yourself and populate them with the gear you use to record and perform live in Sway. If you're thinking it'll be soemthing good for your EPK, I wouldn't count on that, but if you just want to be preresented because you have some bitchin' stage rigs then sure! It soudsn like you're at that regional radio level my old band was at for a little while10 years ago (on the local clearchannel stations during drive time, college radio, big on the web, getting a little press in the local paper and magazines, small tours, opening for major acts from time to time, fanclub) and I would've had no qualms about calling that band 'pro' in the equipboard sense and I think your band sounds pro. I wish you luck maitnaining that success and climbing to the next level. It gets really hard from where you're at. Read everything twice and be nice toe veryone, even the A&R guys who try to grope you and the creepy college radio DJ stalkers who get your cell # from management and won't stop calling. Its like running for office... and if you do clear the hurdles and reach the enxt elvel I hope you enjoy yourself. Its not for everyone. Personally I burned out but god bless you if you don't... or someone bless you, I don't really believe in god.

don't laugh...

Under Your Bed

singer named us

I'm from philly, we were contemporaries of Haelstorm, theys tarted a little earlier and we popped up when they got silent for 5 or 6 years... they survived their contract issues and we didn't... although our goofy name and the often weak lyrics on a lot of that album really didn't help. But it was a fun learning experience because I ahd enver done the overblown rock n roll band thing before. I dreamed of it as a teenager but then i outgrew it and was playing jazz and fuckign with synthesizers, writing TV music and engineering records for other acts.

this is all ancient history of course and no one cares.... otherwise I woulds tart a apge for that band on EB here because I ahd a pretty bitchin' stage rig LOL

best of luck