Join music gear discussions on Equipboard. Talk about guitar gear, electronic music production, get help identifying gear, ask for feedback on your music, suggest ideas to improve Equipboard and more.

Crazy Questions On Effects

I was looking at Octave Pedals today and I had a thought: What happens when you rig two Octave pedals in line next to each other? Does it take an Octave higher/lower note and take it yet another Octave up/down?

And also, Chorus Pedals. Does putting two in line next to each other make the Chorus twice as deep? Does it make it too muddy?

And same thing for Delay, if you take 2-3 Delay Pedals and rig them in line does it replicate the note three or four times?

I'm mostly asking these questions because I'm curious, can't find any videos about these things on youtube and God knows I don't have the money to buy all these pedals.

Maybe post some of your effect questions/ideas below.

GEAR:
  • Washburn T-24 Taurus Bass
  • Gibson EB-3
  • Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro Koa - Limited Edition

phrase your first 2 questions better and I can give you concrete answers.... in line next to eachother.... does that mean in line as in series or next to eachother as in parallel? Are the octave pedals analog or digital?

On multiple choruses. In general if youre talking about stacking modualtions we've all done it. I tend to stack a phaser with chorus or flange, or I did back when I bothered to get pedals out. but you could do 2 of the same effect. you want to set different rates and you cna get some cool sounds however not all units play well together. Essentially chorus and flange are the same effect with a different delay time on the second signal. Sometimes chorus will have more than 1 delayed signal. Usually flangers allow you to add repeats, aka resonance or regen. You can look it up. I can build things but I suck at explaining them. So you go into a chorus for example, and you get your signal and a maybe 30ms or so delayed signal but the delay isn't steady, tis modulated which causes a pitch change so it comes off as dry signal and a delayed vibratoed signal, mostly its about 50/50 dry to wet on a pedal version, boss/roland liked more like 30% wet give or take depending on if it was theJC120, juno6, chorus echo, all a bit dfifferent... right? But elts say 50/50. Then you take that and run it into another chorus. So now your unaffected and delayed vibratoed tone are the dry tone and you add a further delayed and vibrato signal, so you now have a second delay of about 60ms behind your unaffected signal at the guitar's output jack... there's this thing called the haas effect, look it up. As you get out into theselarger delay times its going to become an echo, alright? If you eman in parallel, well, I think I know what you mean and it was series, right? This stuff can be experimented with but its like science, okay? This is how this gadget works, it uses scientific principles and psychoacoustic theory to make my ears happy, if I chain up a second after it its going to treat what it got the exact same way so the 2nd delay line will be twice as delayed.... anyway. Lakes are deep, summer is warm... you can't quantify that int erms of chorus or vacuum tubes, right? Its an analogy. If 2 choruses sounds deeper to you than just one? pretty subjective there. If you want deeper chorus you could also buy a new chorus with a flashy name like 'marianna trench kraken chorus' or something if that makes you feel better. Or you can misbias your amplifier to get warmer tubes, get 'em cooking til they red plate LOL mod the circuit to raise the ehater voltage above operating spec, that'll get 'em warm. But really, there are no thoughts on what will happen. The devices will perform as they were designed to. I just basically explained how chorus works and how 2 in a row would work in the way I think you were asking... that's what would happen PERIOD. How you perceive it? that's up to you.

on the delay question, assuming delay one is passing both wet and dry signal to delay two then delay two will reproduce that whole signal both dry and wet as its own dry and then the wet from delay two will be echoes of the combined dry and wet from delay one... this will be repeated into a 3rd delay line creating a comical mess. What you describe is multitap delay where multiple delay lines are fed the dry signal in parallel. There's also crossfed wet in multitap but that's anotehr story and is still not like chaining up 3 Boss DD5s at 50/50 dry/wet

again, how you perceive the delay mess you're proposing is up to your own taste and artistic goals... but that's what would happen

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

I was talking about in series, analog Choruses, tube-driven amp and what I think is a analog Octave and Delay.

Basicly the exact gear I had in mind was a Carvin V3 100 watt amp w/ 4-Ohm 15 in speaker, EHX Small Clone, Walrus Audio Julia and MXR M234 Choruses, Boss DD-8 Digital delay and Boss OC-3 Octave/Drive.

GEAR:
  • Washburn T-24 Taurus Bass
  • Gibson EB-3
  • Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro Koa - Limited Edition

so you're not chaining multiple octaves? good, they probably won't track in series... I descibed what you'll get from chaining the delay based fx.... give it a go

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

No, I am planing on multiple Octaves, I'm just looking at one kind. Unless I pair an OC-3 with an OC-5...

GEAR:
  • Washburn T-24 Taurus Bass
  • Gibson EB-3
  • Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro Koa - Limited Edition

I would make sure my 2nd octave was digital

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

come to think of it, if you do like 2 analog octaves, one up and one down, lets say the 1st one is high octave.... so you'll be sending a note and its video-game 8 bit octave to the next one which in theory will then give you the clean note and octave plus each of those an octave down so you'll have a clean note, an octave up, an octave down and then a weird fundamental that;s been shifted back down by the second effect... assuming it tracks, which an analog octave effect probably wont when its fed octaves from another octave pedal. Why not just get a POG?

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

I stack delays all the time. I also stack phase and chorus all the time. Course I do weird, ambient, proggy sounding doom shit, so I may not be your best reference point.

But yeah, syncopated delay is something that's done quite often. Two delays, one set to a quarter note equivalent, one set to a dotted eighth. Go crazy with it. You'll get that crazy sort of Pink Floyd Run Like Hell or just the U2 in general delay sound. Fun times to be had by all!

Or not, as the case may be.

GEAR:
  • Vox V241 Bulldog
  • Kay KDG 70
  • Lotus/Morris L-400 Falcon Guitar

actually the U2/lanois delay sound really isn't 2 delays or multitap... tis just the dotted eight and great picking patterns against it that make it feel like more.... Iw as somewhat disappointed to learn that from lanois.... it means the edge really is awesome and we all need to practice making a single delay sound awesome

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

Every interview and rig rundown I've ever seen about the Edge mentions at least two Delays (Korg SSD 2000s or some such, and he's got a selection of others). This is the first I've ever heard that he's only using one delay and it's his picking patterns.

I mean, not to knock him, or take away from him, but seriously, pretty sure he's using at least two delays.

GEAR:
  • Vox V241 Bulldog
  • Kay KDG 70
  • Lotus/Morris L-400 Falcon Guitar

they're not all on at once, ask Lanois.... or find some video of him explaining his delay setup for pedal steel and who he learned it from.

EDIT: I don't know about recent stuff, but my era, Boy to Joshua Tree I'm pretty sure the delay units evolved from a memory man to the SDD topossibly a 2290, at the end there...

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

One of those instances where you're bringing the alternate information, so burden of proof rests on you. Not saying you're wrong, just I have literally never seen that anywhere, and anywhere I look for "The Edge Delay" "The Edge Delay Sound" or anything similar always pops up with two or more units.

So, if you'd be so kind as to provide the link, that'd be great.

GEAR:
  • Vox V241 Bulldog
  • Kay KDG 70
  • Lotus/Morris L-400 Falcon Guitar

i"ll see what i can do, the first time I read this was in tape op, but I doubt the article is available for free and my copy is in hard copy because they weren't digital yet... I'll check out his rig rundown on PG when I have some time, so be patient because it is now monday. I have literally zero time until wednesday starting in about 10 minutes...

I'm also not too worried about the burden of proof because this is a forum and if people think I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time.... its not like yo'll fire me as your engineer because you think I'm nuts. In fact you likely KNOW I'm nuts. But not on this topic.

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

I understand about the no time thing. You'll note my postings went from "fairly frequent" to "next to none."

But nah, you're fired. Never working my rig again. Don't trust a man who thinks the Edge only uses one delay! Next you're going to tell me we landed on the moon and the earth is round! (I'm being sarcastic in case anyone misses it)

And you're mad! Mad I say! But we're all mad here, so it's OK.

GEAR:
  • Vox V241 Bulldog
  • Kay KDG 70
  • Lotus/Morris L-400 Falcon Guitar

And you're mad! Mad I say! But we're all mad here, so it's OK.

apparently I'm mad as Max because I can't find the right Lanois interview to save my life.... now I did once chat with him at AES and he mentioned it, but thts not documentary evidence, its part of a larger anecdote that was more about that badass record he made with EmmyLou Harris and how we're ac30 brothers both owning haddon equipped coppertops that date code to 62 or early 63... the delay was an aside anyway.

EDIT: I'ma look some more while I take down a couple room temp Yards Jefferson Lagers in the rec room, or better yet I'll retreat to my bedroom studio... I need to hide anyway, my son is watching power rangers and its eroding my will to live....

and cheers to another successful thread hijack!

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

Good God, it's been 21 days sence I was last on here... Anyway:

I stack delays all the time. I also stack phase and chorus all the time. Course I do weird, ambient, proggy sounding doom shit, so I may not be your best reference point.

I'd like to hear something like this, are there any artists who play this style or is there something I could look up that sounds like this?

GEAR:
  • Washburn T-24 Taurus Bass
  • Gibson EB-3
  • Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro Koa - Limited Edition

Also has anyone ever heard of a "Variac"? (hope I spelled that right) It's this thing that lets you adapt power to higher or lower wattages.

I know Van Halen used one on I think a 150-Watt Marshall Head and turned it down to 89 Watts to get his tone.

Anyway I was just wondering if anybody has any experince with these things.

GEAR:
  • Washburn T-24 Taurus Bass
  • Gibson EB-3
  • Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro Koa - Limited Edition

do not put your amp on a variac unless you have a multimeter and you know how to read it.... a variac is a variable voltage transformer.... if you give the amp too much voltage it will blow. Dead power transformer and god knows what else. Ed used a variac to brown out his marshalls. Hence the brownsound. He had the idea because he got his first superlead and set it UK voltage and it was quiet and distorted because it was getting half voltage from an american outlet. It was too much but he decided there was probably a happy medium so he set it to 110v and tried putting it on a light dimmer to adjustthe voltage down a little. He's luck he wasn't electrocuted because this is massively unsafe. He then got a variac. A variac is generally used to 'form' new electrolytic fitler caps in an amp by bringing the voltage up slowly. Well Ed ran his down at like 80 to 100v. Now to do this correctly you have to know how much wall voltage you have, then dial back with the amp in standby, then turn it on and see if you like it. If you accidentally turn it UP, you're fucked. Also, in a master volume amp with ltos of gain stages its kinda pointless as the tone isn't coming from the pwoer section. But in a superlead you turn the thing all the way up for the crunch and the variac can provide a different sound with more distortion at a more modest volume. I used to have a few superleads. I tried it. Meh. Ed's tone was really in his hands. They were HUGE.

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

I already knew not to turn it up, to check your wall voltage and that EVH's tone came from a power starved Marshall. I also think you might also need to mod/swap/change the tubes often cause it's kinda hard on the Amp's tubes, transformers, etc. but I'm not sure.

GEAR:
  • Washburn T-24 Taurus Bass
  • Gibson EB-3
  • Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro Koa - Limited Edition

if you turn it down the lower plate voltage should be easier on tubes.... BUT ONLY IF YOU REBIAS at the voltage you intend to run at... Otherwise you'll have problems eventually. Yeah. If you only turn the voltage down it should be easier on the transformers. And since you know not to turn it up we're good.... although I will caution you not to do this when you've been drinking. As a semi-professional binge drinker Ic an tell you that up and down lose meaning long before you notice you're catching a buzz. I don't know how many times I've been turning up the knob for the wrong channel while inebraited over and over or fiddled with speaker cables while the amps in play. Idiot, rookie stuff I would never do sober. No judgement. Put a few strong drinks away and fiddle with the variac and you're proper fucked.

As a tech I'm obligated to give the 'don't blow up your amp' speech. And to recite EVH lore. I am now also required to tell you that I once read Devo also did the variac trick but reduced the power so low without rebiasing that they made the amplifier sound broken... because that's what Devo would do. I have never heard an example of this that jumped out at me in the Devo catalog and do not know how true it is. I did once try plating through an amp I starved really hard but I never found the magic broken tone. It got lousy and quiet and then stopped working as one would expect. No sound at all. I bring this up because while I appreciate Ed if you asked me if I would rather listen to EVH or Devo for the whole day its Devo all day everyday.

If you have a variac or can get one cheap by all emans go for it. You are probably not going to be blown away. Also, don't you play a multichannel gain banger Carvin? Depending on the switching system starving the amp might disable switching. If it has a MIDI style DIN footswitch jack and the switch has lights that light off the amp power get ready to be stuck on one channel. Itf you use a buffered FX loop its probably going to play hell with that too.

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp