Ibanez 1977 2350

Can anyone tell me anything about this guitar at all? The Ibanez Wiki has it in the catalog page, but there's no information about what wood it is, what kind of electronics it has, nothing. A mate of mine has one he's looking to unload, he's not 100% sure what it is--I've got it pegged down as the titular guitar based on headstock shape, colour, and the logo on the headstock. I'd like as much info as possible to help him make an informed pricing on it, as I'm the one looking to snag it, and I'd prefer to not rip him off. Not to mention I like knowing as much information about the instruments I end up with as possible.

Wouldn't do to be like "Oh, yeah, that's this, worth that," and then he find out later I lowballed him, friendship going back as far as ours isn't worth a few C-notes, ja?

What I know from internet searches: It is post-lawsuit (hence the non-open book headstock, without the split-parallagram logo), it's a copy of a Gibson Les Paul Custom, it's a model 2350WH. I'm not 100% sure on anything else about it, other than the interwebz seems pretty evenly split on if they're as good as an actual Les Paul or not. So, inquiring minds want to know as much info as possible!

I'll try and get pics if/when I see him middle of the month. What with the 'rona and all (and my immune system), and my going for surgery soon, that's a bit up in the air. Anyroad, thanks!

Is this the type? https://reverb.com/item/25277261-ibanez-les-paul-custom-2350-1977-noir

is it a bolt on? if so I don't know what its worth as collectible but as a guitar? meh

Michael, that is the type, yes. There are a few listings on Reverb, some have Super 70s listed, some have Hi Flyers, some have Super Distortions as the pickups. None have what the body is made from, that I've seen thus far.

Jim, aye, it's a bolt on. As a Strat player, I don't really mind bolt-on. Fact is, since Mark Agnesi went full-blown "I'll break your legs if you dare show our headstock in a video," I just can't bring myself to buy an actual Gibson.

would you steal one?! I hear looting is all the rage this summer

but for real, I had a close friend when I was younger who had his dad's bolt on lawsuit ibanez and treasured it but couldn'tplay AT ALL. Eventually Ipicked the thing up and was appalled that this somewhat collectible instrument was pretty unpleasant to play (and I'd played higher end ibanez gibson type guitars at this point and was expecting THAT feel with a bolt on -- which is the rgecco, burny feel as it turns out)... I treid setting the thing up for him but there was something inherently unplayable about it. Maybe it was a bad egg, but I've turned my nose up at the lower end ibanez 70s stuff ever since. Although my uncle still owns a roadstar from the very late 70s that's not entirely unplayable. Its not so hot though

Steal one? No. Protest Gibson because of Agnesi's actions? Absofuckin'lutly.

As to the "unplayability" of it, that's another thing I see mixt results of online. Some people love it, some people hate it. Personally, I've always felt an actual Les Paul feels like a 2x4. But thta's just me. Main thing I like about this'n is it's got a wider string path than any of my current gear without being overly bulky on the neck, and since I'm dealing with all the nerve damage, that's kind of a good thing. I mean, I love my super narrow necks, but right now, they're just a hassle.

by the way, the body is a 'pancake' of different woods, not just the top, but the flat slab aprt too.

Well, I've relayed all the info to my mate, we discussed pricing. And... Now he's up in the air on if he wants to sell it. Sentimental value and all that.

Guess I can't fault him, I'm the guy who literally has every instrument and effect (minus one delay pedal) he's ever owned. Still, going to try and talk him into it. I really, really want that axe.

Pancake of wood you say? Kind of like a Dano, or better quality?

better quality than a dano in theory as a dano is not even much wood, mainly formica.... but the formica has quite a sound LOL

the old jap guitars are often made like 70s norlin era gibsons, although as that other dude pointed out, the lower end ones are invariable 'weight relieved' with chambers, probably less to do with weight and more to do with saving wood, They probably used the scraps in other pancakes LOL

I've a theory I'd like to test out knowing about the chambered bodies. My da has an actual LP, so if I can lay hands on the Iby, I'd like to do a sound on sound comparison. If my mate's willing, I'd even like to try an electronics swap, run 'em through a spectrogram with the exact same pickups, see what the difference is...

I can already hear his answer... "Dude, this is vintage original all stock!"

I'll put it back right, I swear!

owning fullysolid LP and LP style guitars and having owned a heavily chambered gretsch duo jet I can tell you that even with different pickups the biggest difference is the note bloom. The partially hollow gretsch has a resonancethat swells after the attack even unplugged almost like subtle low end reverb that follows the attack of your picking before transitioning to sustain and decay. Its more pronounced on chords and gets evened out some plugged in, especially when distorted (less so if you use fast response amplifiers like high end solid state like a polytone or soemthing high current like an ac30 or high bandwidth such as a hiwatt), but shape of the note and frequency response is audibly different from a solid les paul. When properly set up a good, long tennon LP type guitar with no weight relief and no weird flaws like a rise at the heel has a plunky banjo attack unplugged with a surprisingly long decay that's mainly lower frequencies with a really distinguishable ADSR type envelope when recorded with a microphone unplugged whereas the more chambering you add the more complex the envelope gets with more stages (in synth speak). The frequencies present in these envelope stages seem to be highly influenced by bridge amterial and woods. In electronics, lower ohmage pots tend to mitigate some of the frequency differences but even moreso the pickups do. Single coil types like P90s or dearmonds will allow a lot more through, especially with 500k pots wide open, whereas humbuckers allow less through I guess due to cancelling a lot of weird harmonics.... and then PAF types with mismatched coils will pick up extra harmonics but not in the same way where I feel like the pickup is only hearing part of the wood dfferences and accenting weird bits of the spectrum and cancelling other parts and you're hearing the pickup more than a true humbucker or a single.... my 2 cents.

EDIT: I will also posit that both chambered and solid singlecuts can sound great, there's a gradation of audible difference from soemthing heavily hollow like a duo jet or low end lawsuit copy through gibson's 90s and 2000s weight relieved LPs with a few well thought out circles routed in the upper and lower bouts and behind the bridge through a traditional LP. I had an 80s LP in a band and the rhythm guy had a 2000s LP with weight relief. They had similar pickups and electronics, the difference was not super pronounced but we could ehar it when both were set up the same (this guy played crazy low action and that made it hard to hear unplgged, but when I got him to try higher action tog et more singing tone with less gain we were able to really compare... plugged in his guitar was a little brighter but generally sounded like mine and I think mine had just mellowed with age).... I the case of theibanez the bolt on neck will have more impact probably.... the tite bond or hide glue of a gibson has a real effect on frequency response and its been noted scientifically by many nerds. More than the mahogany its really factor in gibson's characteristically midrangey sound unplugged. If the ibanez neck is shimmed then its also decoupled. As bruce feiten will tell you this doesn't decrease sustain as many blieve but it does change the frequencies present in sustain. So shimmed bolt neck singlecut will have a drastically different timbre than a glued in neck.

Plugged in YMMV, pickups, pots and amplifier choice can homogenize things or not... my 62 ac30 tends to add its own special character to every axe but 2 similar guitar will have very ddrastically different sounds whereas they might sound really similar through say a deluxe reverb. The vox mojo doesn't really homogenize the sound, its like a magic sparkle over top of the guitar. No 2 guitars ever sound simialr through that amp. I have 2 very similar SGs with essentially the same pickup set and pots etc, they sound the same through most amps, not through the JMI Vox. So amps play a lot into it plugged in.

The way you describe the note bloom on a chambered LP style going through an AC30 (my main squeeze as far as an amp goes), that's exactly what I'm looking for. So the quest for an Iby 2350 must needs continue on...

The road goes ever on and on... so on and so forth, as it were.

As to shaping one's tone, well, that's been a nigh unending battle with me going on 20 years. I've been working on this airy, hollow, ethereal sound. Very distant, very... me. I don't know how else to put it. It's like early Floyd (Echoes and before) meets Topographic era Yes, with a dash of Test for Echo Rush, and just a hint of Man of Miracles era Styx for the heavier stuff. I know, sounds odd, but it really really works when I put it all together, and what you just told me I should expect from a chambered LP sounds like it would really work well on the low end of some of the harder stuff (particularly like if I were to cover something in the style of "Man of Miracles," which to me is almost a precursor to stoner rock/early doom/sludge metal).

look at low end greco and burny LPs too, very hollow, more like a gretsch duo jet or original 50s guild aristocrat than an LP inside but otherwise very well made guitars. The lwoer the model number in grecos and burnies the more hollow its likely to be :-)

If you have over 2k to spend, the gretsch professional series duo jets are fabulous guitars! But it ahs to be recent ones, 90s ones are more solid, the ones with the big ehadstocks that chris cornell plyed back in the day in front of soundgarden? those are pretty much solid. Its the japanese made FMIC distributed jets that are hollow and only the professional series ones, MIJ only. I got one for 1200 bucks during the financial crisis and eventually sold it ina financial pinch because much as I loved it Iw as playing out in small venues a lot back then and the dearmonds hummed so abdly, but if I had gotten a fitlertron one I woulda kept it. Also, as much as I liked cadillac green and gold hardware in theory it just wasn't me, I need a silver sparkle finish. Need it

oh, kay thin twin and guild aristocrat also great but catching on and getting pricey

I'll keep an eye out. Likely going to be trying to lay hands on an Tele for now though (like I pointed out in the other thread). I've got this song in my head, see, and it needs a Tele.

Also, that'll give me a bit of extra dosh to get one of those Gear4Music Double Necks I asked after a few weeks back. I'll give a full review of it after I've played it a few weeks.

Kay Thin Twin... My main acoustic is a Kay KDG-70, that baby fairly sings, mate. I swear, it's the most magical acoustic I've ever played. I'm not kidding--it's... It's something else. Otherworldly, even. So I'll be keeping an eye for that for sure.

teles.... mmmmm.... at one point I had half a dozen of them. Now 3 I think.

Don't have one yet. Need one for the lead in this song. Going to be running it through my Orange Amp simulation. The Strat goes through the AC30, the Tele goes through the Orange, and the Fretless J gets DI'd into this lovely tube preamp I have that I can shape the tone to almost what Bruce Hornsby has on "The Way it Is" for the bass in that.

I know exactly how each instrument has to sound for it, and how the vocals have to go. It's very particular. Rare that a song that fully formed pops in my head--even rarer that one pops in with all the lyrics with it as well!

I'm just glad the SO said "Sure, you can buy whatever you need to make it happen, just get me a laptop!"