overwhelmed by modern multi-fx technology

I am trying to decide what multi-effects unit to buy to add a whole bunch of effects modelling and routing ability to my rig, but I am completely overwhelmed looking at the affordable older units that appear to meet my needs. I wanna keep it udner a grand including a midi footboard and would prefer something I can put in a rock with my HC30 for some 4 cable method use, but I am also tmpted by the ability to use the preamp models only in AxeFX and PODHD. But the rack version of POD desn't have the analog loops that the big floor version has and AxeFX has only 1 loop and is pricey as hell. On the other hand G System is already a rack with integrated floorboard and 4 analog loops, but it has no distortions (which is fine sicne I can use pedals in the loops, but ti doesn't have the modelled pres which is kidna pissing me off sicne that seems cool.

ARGH! which ones sound great? what are they good at? I really want a basic stereo effects rig between 2 REAL amps. One will just get FX and be set semi-dirty and the other will be bone clean with its REAL preamp and might get some high gain VIRTUAL preamps for heavier distortions as well as the other side of my stereo delay and modulation effects and maybe a little detune pitch-shifting to widen my stereo image between both 4x12s. With G system my serious dirt will have to come from actual high gain rack preamp(s) or dirt boxes in the loops... the other systems offer me preamp-only patches for all their amps which is neat (simulated Soldano pre into a real Matchless power amp and real 2x12 with anyone?), but I am just overwhelmed ehre by which model will clock in cheaply and provide me with solid foot control and easy programming. I know I love the mod and elay effects in TC's G series, but that's all it does... do I want more? Am I willing to invest in an old AxeFX and midi controller? Should I chance the POD? Should I go cheap and do the POD HD500 and just run soe long cables?

so overwhelming. They all have a lot of pros and cons....

Line 6 firehawk?

I am not like the connectivity of the firehawk compared with POD HS500 and its the exact same technology :-( Only Helix is upgraded software...

There's just NOWHERE to A/B this gear. GC carries all the Line6 shit but now TC, SamAsh technically carries TC and Line6 but doesn't stock it and no one has an axe FX in person... plus I will really need to take it home, integrate it with my rig, and makes ome patches to know if I am happy or if I should try something else.... or just stay analog!

And even on equipboard people just want to tout whichever piece they have in their reviews as being the ebst evne though they have not tried anything else... and in the amp modelers, no one is using it the way I would, integrated with real amps :-(

There's a guy on youtube who uses a podhd500 and used amp modelling on it and everything else it does with a Laney ironheart. I'll find the video for you if you want

is he just using the preamp simulations into the LAney'spower amp and a realy speaker cab?

and....

wait for it...

Is he playing Metal?

all these gear demoes of multiFX, amp modellers, midi tube preamps are all by shredders and chuggachugga metal guys! I can't tell the dfference between modelling, preamp/poweramp rigs and integrated heads/cabs with all that gain and scooped midrange. I just can't. It all sounds like a Boss metalzone to me .

I am 8 billion times more subtle and really picky

I guess link me, but a youtube clip, even played thru my studio monitors, doesn't tell me a lot about standing in front of it nor does it tell me how it'll all "feel"

EDIT:

I am really not looking to do a ton with the thing, seriously. Most of my patches will be focused around either a nice jangly clean sometimes with modulation and delay, 80s crunch sometimes with slapback, or a blastoff solo tone that's kinda soldanoey with lots of echo, and then the other side will just be a little detune, longer echoes into maybe a little plate reverb, and then right into one of my actual AC30s. Maybe a fuzz pedal in a loop for blastoff solo patches. That's it. But I want it to sound pretty good.

wow, I can get an open-box floor-sample firehawk on reverb for $350. Hmm

EDIT: no preamp only modelling, fuck that... why not just get a used G system then :-(

I can get a beat up POD HD500x for under $300.... who cares about road wear? should be fine, right? Maybe I will offer the seller $250, he really wants tog et rid of it according to his description. That way I can get my money abck and try G-System if its too digital for me....

So apparently the thing to do to use a POD HD as a preamp into an amp's power amp is to recapture some of the magic connection between the 1st stage of a tube amp and your guitar by hitting a single tube stage before the input of the POD. Guys like using decent tube mic pres with DI inputs because then they get a low impedance output to drive long cable runs and they go into the XLR input. Kinda neat, but why couldn't I just plug into the pentode channel of my HC30 and feed the pre-amp out into my radial passive DI. The EF86 has reat compression, bandwidth and harmonic, the radial has a -`15dB dB pad in case optimal fullness from the EF86 is too hot for the POD. I have some low end tailoring via a capacitor-based HP filter like an od tube mic-pre but no other tone shaping from the channel so it should just provide a rich, hot clean signal to the modeler that will give my guitar a real, variable impedance load on it from the tube. From there I can sue the effects and preamp sims and then slam into the power amp return with a hi Z signal from the POD and I should be able to create a pile of really cool patches That will have a bare minimum of digital muckity muck going on other than the actual features I bought the POD for. I just want to minimize all the artifacts induced by going with something high tech like this.... I'll trade a little feel and dynamics from the whole system for a wider palette of sounds from the closed-back part of my rig and hopefully the no-negative feedback "class A" matchless power section will keep the whole thing warm and grimey sounding like guitars should be.... and because you can have 2 independent stereo apths I can use the other stereo channel to justa dd some effects to into the front end of one of my actual hand made voxes which have no effects loop no effects loop. They can add some definition and added sparkle as well as the old school tube sag... and I am stereo so I can do stereo modulation, double track effects, stereo echoes.... hmmm...

and this leaves the FX loop free to throw a real fuzz or drive pedal in if I don't like the dirt box emulations and just use the other effects and high gain pre models... and I could dig out my midi to CV box and use the midi out on the POD500 to engage hot mode on the AC30HW... unless I settle on the 62, but I doubt it, I don't gig that amp and this is a live rig (looking to jin a weekend warrior band again this year and I wanna sound badassed... even more badassed than usual). Plus I will be sending a little EF86 color over to the traditional amp as well as the modulations and delays. Even for a dry sound I can get double down the voxiness.... either that or the hole deal will suck a rat and I will sell it and hopefully break even.

I think I am going to buy this thing and build a high tech rig here....

thanks for everyone's useful input. I am about to pull the trigger on thos POD HD500x and see what I think of turning my live rig really hybrid!

I am kinda picturing myself doing this except using my amp's input always on as like a direct box so once I get past the single pentode stage I am running low Z baanced signals so I can drive long cable runs and keep my noise level down as well as preserving the rective laod of a tube amplifier input on my passive pickups, you can't simulate that changing impedance load digitally yet eeven though you can change the guitar input impedance on all these Line6 gizmos, its still like having a buffer on all the time and willt ake all the "give" outta your signal.... ahrd to describe, but ehre's the video I found where they are kidna using the Line6 gadget the way I am thinking of using it... kinda sorta!

https://youtu.be/r7UDO8SM6NI

Random suggestion.

I've heard the sounds that Plini can get out of it and they sound absolutely killer. This is essentially what he uses in place of an AxeFX, and there's a few good reviews on it.

Not sure if they meet all your criteria, but I think it's pretty cool.

oh god no, it looks cool for a guy with no gear and no sound yet, ut for a guy like me with a distinct sound and tons of analog gear who wants to just kidna expand his palette? nah

part of my desired thing is to have a bunch of buttons with preset sounds to cover a bunch of applications, and 3 switches is not quite enough... I'm looking to implement my digital effects and the odd preamp simulation in the least generic way possible too. I have a sound that's uniquely me. Its mostly my hands but its a little bit my gear chices, so I wanna preserve my poweramp and speaker preferences for sure, so I need a shit ton of routing to keep as much of my core setup intact as possible most of the time. It would all make sense if you were me and you were dug into a real specific response from your amplifiers you are used to but need to add effects and gain transparently and want 1 touch patch shifts when the gig requires it. Given my druthers I would just always tote 1 vox and a Gibson and make it happen that way, but some gigs call for a bunch of hoopty joop. My DC bar band was funny because I showed up with a guitar, amp (both high end) and a drive I was using as a dirty boost for solos and they were like "where's your pedal board?" I scoffed, wowed them, but I think if they were better they coulda used more sounds....

oh god no, it looks cool for a guy with no gear and no sound yet, ut for a guy like me with a distinct sound and tons of analog gear who wants to just kidna expand his palette? nah

:(

Okay, well that's as far as my knowledge of multi-effects units goes. Happy shopping!

I think I am going to buy a POD HD500x used on the cheap and tryintegrating it with my analog stuff and see how I feel about it. I don't wanna drastically change how I play guitar. Just add a bunch of options without buying a few grand in pedals and routing systems not to mention the trouble of adding channel switching amp(s), preamps.... ugh. I just want my left side to have more flexibility versus my core ac30 sound I usually put to my right, but still be able to throw down back into dual ac30s when I want my classic 'jim' tone.

EDIT: its a pain in the balls to do some of this stuff w/o really elaborate setups, I just want a simple, all in one floor board and a couple cables. Once I have my presets dialed in for a bunch of tone that will do the business at appropriate levels I just wanna have at it and be able to back off my volmes and ones and get some additional sounds the old school way too because its what I am used to. I can't imagine eliminating tube amps completely.

I am confused; what do you actually want this modeller for? I met a guy using one of those pods your gonna buy last night, for bass, and he said it worked quite well, but I'm always sceptical, with that kind of stuff, maybe I've been watching to much of Glenn Fricker.

for effects and maybe some of the high gain preamp models

well, someone bought the beatup PODHD500x on reverb for the full $299. I guess my lowball offer of 250 spurred someone int action. guh

There's so much to this. Maybe I'll stick with what works for me already. I could spend this money on another guitar.

I have bid on an hd500x as mentioned in another thread. If it stays under 300 bucks total i am entering the modern world at last. If not maybe the buy-in for new tech is just too steepfor me. It will mainly be an effects platform and midnite silent oractice/demo solution so i refuse to pay top dollar. If i really believed a kemper, axe fx or pod could replavmce an ac30 completely, then maybe. But i doubt that... Hearing could bebelieving though.