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Preamp Tubes

I'm curious with preamp tubes, can say a12ay7 or 12au7 be used instead of a 12ax7 or are they like power tubes and run at a specific voltage so are incompatible with different types of preamp tubes?

Also what are the most notable tonal differences between those types of preamp tubes?

By the way, where is everyone its been quiet on here!

pretty much all current production noval dual triodes are interchangeable... as long as they start with 12 and end with 7 so the pin-out is wired the same internally... so au7, at7, ay7, ax7, the same pin out and functionality, different gain level and output impedance... also, different linearity of frequency response under the same operating voltages.... I am a big fan of the 12at7 tube, it has 20% lower gain than a 12ax7, but ha lower output impedance so even with less gain it can drive the next stage or a power amp pretty hard and passes a has higher bandwidth than an ax7 in the same circuit

I got really busy Tuesday and Wednesday and now Lucian's home and I am devoting all my time to him for the next 2 weeks then its back to work, so I will be very intermittent with forum posting for the foreseeable future

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

I see, think when I order my head in a few weeks in gunna order a few sets of different preamp tubes to see what sounds best to me. Speaking of tubes, what manufacturer do you prefer best for a given type of tube and why? Also how do amps that can take different power tubes works? Like a EL34 amp but can use say KT88s or 6L6GC tubes? How does all that work? I've always wondered, obviously I'm not gonna go chuck random power tubes in a amp without asking the manufacture and referring to the manual. Why don't preamp tubes need to be biased?

That's fair enough, been a bit busy lately, had to take Matthew to the hospital for a blood test and by the way, if you can't drive like me and have a toddler the walk is frickin horrible after 10 min especially where she just finished nursey so was tired. I recommend just get a taxi or a lift, not walk a mile, then a train, then a bus then sit in a waiting room and do it all again! The way she was crying when she got really tired you'd have think me and my fiancée were the most horrible people in the world! Luckily the hospital has shops inside so got her some juice and chocolate as.a treat

should I confine myself to current production tubes? because the best 12at7 for V1 is a 60s Mullard ecc82... at least to my ear.... they're around, not too pricey... around $25 US... I hate most current production 12at7 tubes, they are not up to snuff

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

What about current production? Also what do you think of groove tubes? From my understanding they are just rebranded tubes that get tested etc apart from the ones that are proprietary design which they have specially made for them

groove tubes are an overpriced testing service, though their EL34m is a really good sounding tube made exclusively for them in china, but they have piss poor longevity.... their USA made 6L6GE is killer and lasts forever, but is SO expensive compared to a JJ 6L6 its not worth it

in 12ax7s I like new sensor's tung dol reissue.... very gainy, rich sounding tube, but they have a high failure rate so go through a dealer with excellent testing... otherwise JJ pres are solidly made and sound good enough if you are on a udget. A lot depends on the circuit and how well trained your ear becomes. I seldom care about tube brand for live purposes, just recording. The whole thing can be diminishing returns, especially if you are a pedals and master volume modern player. So much of the difference between old and new pres is FEEL. If you don't play the amp then it won't matter a ton. The old stuff tends to sound a bit better if you listen critically and lasts a really long time. Otherwise its a question of optimizing the response of the whole amp to respond to your playing the way your personalized guitars do so the whole thing becomes a single instrument geared to the way you play. I am way down that rabbit hole having never been a huge effects head and having a very old-school approach to actually playing guitar. It suits me, but it won't suit everyone.

That said, while 3 of my amps have nice vintage pres throughout right now, one has the stock Chinese tubes and no one thinks it sounds bad and it feels fine to me.

my overall answer is that the most reliable current production pres are JJs across the board. They are a little dark sounding compared to old stuff and even most current production tubes but this also means they don't harsh out at extreme treble settings and will smooth out pedals like a DS1. If you are going to use effects heavily through a modern amp design with a master volume and lots of features, leave all your guitar controls full up, and generate any non-pedal drive from the preamp? JJ is probably a great way to go unless you are looking for lots of treble and more distortion on tap from the gain control. You gotta consider how you play your amp and if reliability or response is more important, or if you want to go nuts on a quest for both. Its expensive these days, most of my old tubes were pulled from old gear abck when people weren't as hip to all this stuff. I got into it because it suited me, then the market caught up wth my tastes. YMMV though

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

I thought they were, occasionally they are very cheap on amazon though! Like £15 for a matched set of 4 power tubes.

About preamp tubes then, what would you recommend for more clean headroom? Obviously there's only so much headroom you can add before the power tubes and how the circuit is designed and all that lot. But yeah, with preamp tubes what gives the most headroom in the preamp typically?

With my current amp I'm exclusively pedals but with tube amps I've always been more pushing the power amp when possible because lets face it power amp break up is just amazing! I'll have to see though when I have a tube amp with experience of it and lots of playing around what kind of player I am. With my strat I use the volume alot just because of how I have set that guitar up with a SH-4 JB in the bridge pretty close to the strings it gives a awesome almost over driven tone, I love it, if it gets too trebly I just roll back the tone, I'm the same with my Les Pauls but not to the same extent

it really depends on the amp.... if tis fixed bias then you can really control the onset of power tube distortion with bias....

there's so much to this beyond the popular internet mythology

y'know what? you have 2 kids and no car so I recommend you buy what you can afford!

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

I have savings haha, saw a bugera T5 on dv247 for £75 new, that's a steal, think its a vox night train copy?

I ain't even got a license! Lol, for my test booked for two weeks from now and have a car sorted ready just need my license:) can't wait to drive though! Walking around where I live is great but I want to just go around the UK and one day drive to Moscow from Eastleigh with my family

I'm just saying, don't knock yourself out spending when you could keep saving and saving. Its not like you are playing professionally. You're a Dad with a day job. I don't go buying thousands worth f NOS tubes anymore either. Haven't bothered since I was a pro. It just so happens I still have a gear and parts stash like you wouldn't believe. On the downside I will probably be working my day job until I die unless my gear really appreciates in value and I am willing to sell it to fund that retirement.

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp

I would love to play professionally but I'm not sure how feasible that is with two kids? I was offered to join my friends band two years back as there lead guitarist, I stupidly declined! They now have albums out lol. But they don't play my type of thing and I'd just be way out of place, they're just all out metal players I'm not that type of guy. I'm a alt rock guy.

I have a 212 cab on the way from Germany, 2 vintage 30's and 16mm ply wood closed back, made by Harley Benton, Thomanns own guitar company £160, damn cheap! Good speakers and all so have more money for a good head. I do plan to start a band soon and see what happens

I could never see myself in a metal band either, heh.

GEAR:
  • Roland Juno-6
  • Gibson SG Standard
  • Vox AC30 Guitar Combo Amp