I'm looking to buy a Juno 6, not 60, 6.... USA 110-120v wall voltage

Deepmind doesn't seem tough to program, far from it, and it also sounds great, and it's a hell of a deal pricewise... it's just that with the screen in the middle, edit modes, etc there is (to me) significantly more that one has to ignore to keep the experience as simple as a Juno 6/60/106... I like limitations... I like knowing I've used the darn thing to its fullest... blah blah blah, tyranny of choice, etc, etc.... I don't even like hardware synths with built-in FX... I mean, even if you can turn the FX off completely, they're still there, annoying me... I'm weird.

To me, the Deepmind is like if someone made a reproduction of a '57 Stratocaster, but added an LCD screen on the body and shift buttons next to each knob... it's a different beast at that point... a better, more versitile, more useful kind of different for some, a distracting kind of different for others.

I want a 6, dfferent synth. The deepmind is to my ear a budget 106 (well, more like a budget jx3p with a mod matrix and digital fx, depite behringer's claims to have been 'inspired by' the earlier 6/60/jupiter8 filters... oh, and elts not talk about chorus, lets just not)... but the 106 was a budget 6/60 itself, everything downgraded to make it more affordable for people looking at a first syntheizer. The 106 is awesome for its inclusion of midi stock, but if you ever just play one next to a 6 or 60? no contest. 106 is the poor relation sonically. Let me preface this statement by saying I am not trashing the deep mind or bhringer's R&D team, but I wasn't that knocked out by the deepmind I tried abck when it came out, maybe if I spent more time with it. Generally I know if a synth is for me in a few minutes, but after hours I wasn't reaching for my wallet. Nope I'll either break down and buy this juno6 or wait awhile. I can swing it, its just hard to rationalize the purchase. I already bought myself an 82ish SCI Prophet 600 for my birthday (2+ months early).

To me, the Deepmind is like if someone made a reproduction of a '57 Stratocaster, but added an LCD screen on the body and shift buttons next to each knob... it's a different beast at that point... a better, more versitile, more useful kind of different for some, a distracting kind of different for others.

great points there

I always feel like people who went with a modern homage (not direct clone even, but like a custom classic ac30 with a lot of modern conveniences but a phoney solid state trem/vibrato effect versus say a 62) of a vintage piece they're always jumping on vintage threads to tout it on all the different music boards and groups almost to continue to justify to themselves that its every bit as good as the old piece (this is not directed at you MikeByrd, just general musings because I get this a lot and have been accused of it when I stick up for new stuff).... when the question is really, "is it good for YOU?"

EDIT: I can say the deep mind was not good for me. It didn't provide the experience Iw as looking for on a couple of levels, not just sonics. I can also say that my prophet would not be right for many people. Yesterday I had abitch of a time keeping it reasonably in tune while recording because it was a chilly day and no amount of warm up time seemed to make the VCOs temp stable because the temp in my house was allover the frickin' map. But to me it was worth it. I like it a lot. its not just modern stuff I'll look down my nose at. I've sold on a jx8p lately among other things. Didn't like it... very desireable stuff. I love my prologue though, kinda pedestrian. Its more like "this does my thing the way I want it to."

...but if you ever just play one next to a 6 or 60? no contest. 106 is the poor relation sonically.

If you're making capital-T Techno or acid, in the grand ol' 90s style, and wanna squelch away, I suspect that the ways a 106 differs from earlier Junos sonically could be an asset... I mean, the 106 is all over so many 90s dance records... but overall, I'd agree with Jim's sonic assment between the 6/60 and the 106. I own a 60 because, years back, a musician friend that owned both told me to absolutely seek out the 60 over the 106, because the 106 oscillators sounded like a cheap imitation of the 60s in his opinion... I mean, these are all just subjective opinions, and anyone with any lick of talent could make the same great track with a 6, 60, 106, Deepmind, TAL U-No-LX v2, Roland Cloud/Boutique... the differences mentioned here are a real and audible, but I trust everyone reading this already knows that a real vintage Juno is no longer a must-have for any specific type of music. Juno 6/60 vs 106 vs Deepmind 6/12 vs software isn't the decision that's gonna make or break one's Yazoo cover band. ;)

Fight it, brother!

My unsolicited 2 cents: If you're going to give into temptation, do it for a very clean example that would be easier to flip for crazy money in a few years... .

you're right. if I have to have an original juno6 like I've wanted since I was a teenager I should hold out for a good one... I think what Mike Byrd misses with me is that as a kid I took it in my head I wanted certain thigns and said I would get them one day and that day has been here for the last 20 years as I acquire stuff here and there. If a perfectly good reissue is available like the ODyssey full size? Cool. If not I'm looking at old stuff.

Jim if you've a lust for vintage behringer have just released the 80's analog beast the MONOPOLY heres a link, enjoy https://youtu.be/zoohp8UrxcE

yes, you get it, Mike. Good example. :)

For me, personally, I've spent the last 10 years wanting Mono/Poly, and if this clone launched with a totally different look and layout than the dream I've had for so long, it would be a tougher sell... but this new Monopoly has a similar layout, a decently-large-enough form factor, it sounds the part thus-far... it's likely 25% of the price of a well-preserved original, plus it has midi, connectivity, it checks off a lot of boxes... the contentious aspects of the Behringer brand and approach are being discussed everywhere, so no point in going there in this non-behringer thread... but all that aside, I like the way they've packaged this vintage Korg clone... The appeal of a product like this is more emotional than rational (like high end furniture and fashion), but I think they'll be more successful with this approach, sales-wise, than launching something with a more modern look and interface... if you go the modern route, it's probably best to go all-in and make something that both looks and sounds new, and can make all manner of DSP and DSP-analog hybrid noises... which is exactly what Korg has been doing with the 'logues for the past 5 years... and they sell a #$@% load, from what I've heard.

Anyway, to bring it back around, the Juno 6/60s sound amazing. Nobody has launched an analog clone that captures every aspect of that sound or UX yet... which is why Jim is hunting, and why I'm probably going to drop hundreds restoring mine.

Be thankful you're able to get great joy and results you love from a version of the Juno design that doesn't require hunting for parts, DCB-2-MIDI converters, and expensive tech bills. :)

yes, you get it, Mike. Good example. :)

For me, personally, I've spent the last 10 years wanting Mono/Poly, and if this clone launched with a totally different look and layout than the dream I've had for so long, it would be a tougher sell... but this new Monopoly has a similar layout, a decently-large-enough form factor, it sounds the part thus-far... it's likely 25% of the price of a well-preserved original, plus it has midi, connectivity, it checks off a lot of boxes...

all that with 1 comment.... this is just a mixture of existing stuff they've already been doing. Its built on their "poly D" chassis which is in itself a moog voiced mono/poly rip off, 4 paraphonic oscillators? yup. I want to say that korg used CEM oscillator chips in this one (which they already reissue as cool audio) and I think it shares the SSM ladder filter chip of the poly6 (which they might reissue too, I forget). So not a lot of R&D here. It should be hella cheap. That said I've enver been a big fan of the mono/poly. It sounds good but I'm not a big paraphonic fan (although for the 200 bucks t cost me I don't know why people hate on the poly800 so much, served me well for years til I sold it)... and then the unison sound? Its cool but I tend to want odd numbers of oscillators, I dunno, its neat. I can just tell why Uli picked this one. No R&D needed apart from some gains taging and power supply mods to thepolyD. Now a poly6? That I'd talk about. Its such a specific sound and limited engine that the asking prices are ridiculous, but man does it sound good. If I could get one for udner a rgand? Uli you get my money. Just don't fuck it up like the junomind.

Anyway, to bring it back around, the Juno 6/60s sound amazing. Nobody has launched an analog clone that captures every aspect of that sound or UX yet... which is why Jim is hunting, and why I'm probably going to drop hundreds restoring mine.

yeah, sometimes its a hassle, I think one of the oscillators on one of the voices of my Prophet 600 might need love, just one.... there's one that's drifting way more than the others and you'll have a nice analog, drifty chord going and one note will occassionally be way out. Its a hassle but I'll deal with it.

There's something about the big and sturdy feel of these early 80s boards that's really inspiring too. They're substantial. The new stuff, even like DSI stuff, just doesn't feel as robust in your hands although the feel of synth keybeds has come a long way LOL

Be thankful you're able to get great joy and results you love from a version of the Juno design that doesn't require hunting for parts, DCB-2-MIDI converters, and expensive tech bills. :)

ROCK!

all that with 1 comment.... this is just a mixture of existing stuff they've already been doing. Its built on their "poly D" chassis which is in itself a moog voiced mono/poly rip off, 4 paraphonic oscillators? yup. I want to say that korg used CEM oscillator chips in this one (which they already reissue as cool audio) and I think it shares the SSM ladder filter chip of the poly6 (which they might reissue too, I forget). So not a lot of R&D here. It should be hella cheap. That said I've enver been a big fan of the mono/poly. It sounds good but I'm not a big paraphonic fan (although for the 200 bucks t cost me I don't know why people hate on the poly800 so much, served me well for years til I sold it)... and then the unison sound? Its cool but I tend to want odd numbers of oscillators, I dunno, its neat. I can just tell why Uli picked this one. No R&D needed apart from some gains taging and power supply mods to thepolyD. Now a poly6? That I'd talk about. Its such a specific sound and limited engine that the asking prices are ridiculous, but man does it sound good. If I could get one for udner a rgand? Uli you get my money. Just don't fuck it up like the junomind.

Re: paraphony: For me, Mono/Poly has always just been a funky 4-osc monosynth that's thicker than most anything Roland produced in that era, but, sonically, it still isn't a full-on American bruiser like a Moog or Arp. For chords, I'd still use a polysnyth 99% of the time.

Re: R&D... I have no idea what goes on inside of Behringer HQ, but in general, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the platform their Monopoly is using was originally concieved of for Monopoly, or some other yet-to-be-announced synth, but the Poly D productization of that platform just ended up crossing the finish line before the others... it happens. Order of release doesn't always = originally intended release order... the fact that it's the same chassis isn't a turn off for me, that's just efficient product planning.

Controversy aside, Behringer undoubtedly has some very competent and dedicated Engineers working on these products, and getting any product out the door, regardless of how similar it is to an existing one, is not something I'd describe as easy... but I agree that, in terms of relative effort, R&D for a project that's essentially "clone this old synth, but cost-reduce with modern tech and manufacturing where possible" is gonna be a smaller expenditure than a wholy new synth from the ground up... I doubt they'd have greenlit the clone if someone wasn't already making new & viable versions of Mono/Poly's curtis chips (I think you're right re: original Mono/Poly using Curtis 2033 & 2044)... and synth nerds like me would be suspicious if a curtis-based synth like this was cloned using an enterely different approach for VCO/VCF.

Anyway... either the end product sounds great or it doesn't, we both know nobody will care how much or little effort went into it in the long run. If pedal companies can get away with charging $$$ for minor tweaks to 50 year old analog designs they themselves didn't originate... IDK... seems like some aspects of Behringer's MusicTribe approach will become normalized within the marketplace over time, even if there are other aspects beyond the tech itself that merit ongoing debate.

behringer actually makes the new curtis chip clones themselves.... not just FOR themselves either. Cool Audio supplies technicians, entusiasts and actually other synth companies! Curtis's widow has given Uli a raft of shit in the press but from a legal standpoint its her own fault for letting the patents expire after he passed away. That's neither here nor there, just saying Uli's cool audio wing already makes gobs of SSM and CEM filter, oscillator, VCA and synth on a chip ICs. Slapping together a bunch of them in a chassis you developed for another product? I want the price point on that monopoly to be LOW LOW LOW even by behringer standards. And Is till wanna know why the pro 1 doesn't come with a keyboard. It just sorta bothers me. I know techno guys and vince clark loved them holding down the bassline via CV, but they're eminently playable too. I eman, eyah ic an hook up a keybaord, but altely I'm back to liking an integrated isntrument if I'm going to play. I just feel all warm, fuzzy and in touch with fully realized isntrument and not a device with a human interface plugged in. I sued to be way different, but that'smiddle age for you!

All fair and good points... and I didn't know Behringer was the source of said new chips, but that makes some business sense, given the volumes they're probably aiming for. We're in such early days for the boutique analog synth market. There will eventually be other companies making clones of these classics, at different price points and to please different tastes and/or ethical stances... Behringer might still be one of our cheapest options when that day comes, but I suspect we'll have companies equivalent to the likes of Lakland and Moollon, but for minimoog and juno clones instead of P & J basses.

I beleive ther's another option for replacement chips, I forget the company name.... they're more mom and pop. They started with the jupiter/pre-106juno filter chip and then branched out to 106 voice chips that don't get melty with red goop and fail... and I think they do some Curtis and SSM stuff too.

You've hit the nail on the head. This is definitely all part of the synth being fully accepted as more than a novelty or niche instrument... you can see it happening just like the knockoff strts and pauls from the lawsuit era. Of course it opened up with early analogs just like no one was cloning les popular models of guitar right away. Novation really opened it up by bringing out the first mass market monosynth for everyone when iw as a teenager. Soup up a wasp and there's the bass station. I love novation by the way. Anyway. You're onto soemthing. But like tube amps being the other half of a rock guitar sound and classic models being cloned and updated ad nauseum by corporate megaliths and boutique shops alike, synths will be a slower burn than guitars. Its cooking now but boy did it take a long time.

Remember after house and techno had gone global and you just couldn't find an affordable analog synth anymore, not even a clunker model in beater condition? And new ones? You had to settle for a nord, jp8000, ms2000 or virus for awhile.... novation stood alone bringing a reasonably priced all analog monosynth to the masses.... whats crazy now is have wave memory/table and FM are finally being appreciated by a wider audience and brought into the 21st century.

its not a juno6, but based on your glowing review of the jx3p, pkennethk, I managed to get the rack iteration (mks30) and a pg200 on the cheap lst night. I relly don't remember loving the jx3plast time I played one and I outright disliked the jx8p I had, but I'm giving this another shot. Maybe with the controller it will inspire me. Still seeking a j6 though. I'm debating paying top dollar for a soundgas serviced, midi-fied unit. I eman, I'll never take a bath on it if I need to sell it and I think between that, my mks50 and now the mks30 I will be set for roland poly sounds.

Fight it, brother!

My unsolicited 2 cents: If you're going to give into temptation, do it for a very clean example that would be easier to flip for crazy money in a few years...

what do you thin of this one, Pkenneth?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-Juno-6-Vintage-Polyphonic-Analog-Synthesizer-works-but-please-read/193578164782?epid=10011034863&hash=item2d1228622e:g:a8kAAOSw82tfEMVx

she's tempting.... very mint. Seems like it needs a good cleaning and maybe power supply recapping to be safe, but so clean otherwise.

its not a juno6, but based on your glowing review of the jx3p, pkennethk, I managed to get the rack iteration (mks30) and a pg200 on the cheap lst night.

Jim I am honored and very jealous. I've been tempted to get an MKS30 for years. I know they can have voice chip issues, as they use the same service-hungry chips as the 106 AFAIK (unlike 3P, which is something different, probably duller-sounding), but we're talking one service every decade... NBD, really. How is the MKS treating you?

I recorded with it a few days ago and was very pelased with how it sat in the track. It has that 106 quality for sure. Need to find a rack space for it. My only gripe is that mine is a bit noisey....it probably needs service. No voices cutting out but perhaps I should look at the powersupply tantalum caps and consider dealing with the red goo of death on the oscillator chips. WHen the pandemic finally abates here I might take all of my old gear over to belltone synthworks for a solid going over.

Fight it, brother!

My unsolicited 2 cents: If you're going to give into temptation, do it for a very clean example that would be easier to flip for crazy money in a few years...

what do you thin of this one, Pkenneth?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-Juno-6-Vintage-Polyphonic-Analog-Synthesizer-works-but-please-read/193578164782?epid=10011034863&hash=item2d1228622e:g:a8kAAOSw82tfEMVx

she's tempting.... very mint. Seems like it needs a good cleaning and maybe power supply recapping to be safe, but so clean otherwise.

For anyone else, I'd say stay away due to the issues mentioned and the lack of verified servicing, but if disassembly to clean and/or replace all sliders and re-capping PSU are NBD for you, and you've sourced and budgeted a means to replace pretty much all the switches, buttons and sliders... go for it.

My main warning is that the mechanical componenets on my 60 didn't respond to careful & patient lube/de-ox the way nearly all my other vintage gear has... so plan for many of the "touchy" switches mentioned to be more of a lost cause than one might othewise expect... any you can revive and save w/o replacing are a bonus.

I recorded with it a few days ago and was very pelased with how it sat in the track. It has that 106 quality for sure.

Yeah, I'd like to pick up an MKS30 for that reason, it's the same tonal arc as the 3P, but also a slightly different flavor. Probably brighter w/ more desirable high-resonance characteristics if it's sounding like a 2-OSC 106.

I'm so glad to hear it's working for you thus far. Give it time; remember I was really let down by my 3P the first week I had it. A very knowledgable friend/colleague that played my 3P recently said that everything coming out of it sounded like Tame Impala. There was definitely nothing dreamy coming out of that 3P when I first got it... it took awahile to learn to stop fighting against it's inherent stengths and just go with the flow... blah blah blah, you know exactly what you're doing... I'll shut up now....

its about as bright as my jx8p was but the fitler sounds squelchier at high res.... it does similar things to my prophet and poly61 but in a totally different voice. Its also hella punchy. So far I've just tracked strings with it coupled with the prophet and they amde a great team in that role.... the prophet can be bright but its not squelchy, has that round moog filter vibe almost, hard to descrbe. The curtis chips are tighter but also very wet sounding? Sloshy?

the chorus on the 30 is really nice too, very lush.

its about as bright as my jx8p was but the fitler sounds squelchier at high res.... it does similar things to my prophet and poly61 but in a totally different voice. Its also hella punchy.

I just watched video (via Equipboard, an SOS feature on retrogear UK Junglist/Traditionalist Pete Cannon) where he nails the opening chords to 808 State's Pacific 202 on a Poly61... a tone that's been eluding me forever... I wish Korg had made a rack version of the PolySix or Poly61, I don't need anymore damn keybeds here... but damn, that sound...