We have 83 different entries for Gibson Les Paul Studio...

pkennethk|26907 MODERATOR

GEAR:

It's time to clean up and consolidate the way Equipboard handles the Gibson Les Paul Studio.

Below is the current state of the database. This is a hot mess, even with all the Epiphone models removed.

We recently received an honest request to add yet another Les Paul Studio.

How many entries SHOULD we have for this long-tenured, ugly-but-good Les Paul model?

7 months ago

GEAR:

sprucebringsteen|28717 MODERATOR

GEAR:

Oof. I’d say the Baritones definitely stay separate, but that’s a lot to process.

7 months ago

GEAR:

pkennethk|26907 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to sprucebringsteen:

I put the full list there just for dramatic impact. I don't expect anyone to tease through it all.

What I'm looking for is some sign-off from guitarists who care, like you, Jim and others re: a consensus general approach to such things.

I'll kick things off with a rude proposal:

Rather than trying to divide up the different eras of the "vanilla" Les Paul Studio (e.g. '83-'89, '90-'97, etc.), everything sold as "Gibson Les Paul Studio" (not the "plus", "special", "deluxe", "special edition", "T", "HP", etc.) from 1983 onward should be consolidated to the "Gibson Les Paul Studio" entry, and folks can use the new date tag feature to let everyone know whether they have a chunkier 80s model, a weight-reduced 90s model or a wacky robo-tuner model.

That would mean we merge about 13 of those entries above under the very first entry in the list.

...then, after the dust settles on that, we'd see if there are any special edition, "T", "Faded", etc models that are dupes or could be merged, and call it a day.

Am I being too much of a brute to attempt that drastic of a roll-up?

7 months ago

GEAR:

edgedancer|26291

GEAR:

In reply to pkennethk:

I would say anything that doesn't have a Plus, Special, Deluxe, HP, 120th Anniversary in the name, is a regular Gibson Les Paul Studio regardless of birthdate, finish or neck profile. I'll kinda describe each one below:

Plus: This is a Studio with a flame top.

Special: This is a Studio with P90's.

Deluxe: This is a Plus with fancy electronics.

HP: Thin neck, heel contours.

120th Anniv.: This is unique to the 2014 model. Has a special 12th fret inlay.

Btw, I didn't even know they come in baritone also.

I put the full list there just for dramatic impact. I don't expect anyone to tease through it all.

What I'm looking for is some sign-off from guitarists who care, like you, Jim and others re: a consensus general approach to such things.

I'll kick things off with a rude proposal:

Rather than trying to divide up the different eras of the "vanilla" Les Paul Studio (e.g. '83-'89, '90-'97, etc.), everything sold as "Gibson Les Paul Studio" (not the "plus", "special", "deluxe", "special edition", "T", "HP", etc.) from 1983 onward should be consolidated to the "Gibson Les Paul Studio" entry, and folks can use the new date tag feature to let everyone know whether they have a chunkier 80s model, a weight-reduced 90s model or a wacky robo-tuner model.

That would mean we merge about 13 of those entries above under the very first entry in the list.

...then, after the dust settles on that, we'd see if there are any special edition, "T", "Faded", etc models that are dupes or could be merged, and call it a day.

Am I being too much of a brute to attempt that drastic of a roll-up?

7 months ago

GEAR:

pkennethk|26907 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to edgedancer:

I would say anything that doesn't have a Plus, Special, Deluxe, HP, 120th Anniversary in the name, is a regular Gibson Les Paul Studio regardless of birthdate, finish or neck profile. I'll kinda describe each one below:

Plus: This is a Studio with a flame top.

Special: This is a Studio with P90's.

Deluxe: This is a Plus with fancy electronics.

HP: Thin neck, heel contours.

Excellent!

So we'd have:

Gibson Les Paul Studio: plain vanilla
Plus: flame top
Special: P90's
Deluxe: a Plus with fancy electronics
HP: Thin neck, heel contours
Baritone: 28" scale

What are the "T" models from last decade?

Where do the "Faded" models fit in?

7 months ago

GEAR:

jimmarchi1|41029 MODERATOR

GEAR:

Let me think this over. 'Faded' and 'sstin' finish variants may be significant because the thin coat of lacquer tends to wear off fast of you gig under stage lights regularly... that's significant to me.

7 months ago

GEAR:

pkennethk|26907 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to jimmarchi1:

Let me think this over. 'Faded' and 'sstin' finish variants may be significant because the thin coat of lacquer tends to wear off fast of you gig under stage lights regularly... that's significant to me.

Our resident Gibson SME has arrived. Thanks for joining in, Jim!

Putting aside the complication of all the limited, faded, special, plus stuff for a moment, what's your take on what to do with the 13 or so vanilla LP Studio entries?

Should we break down the vanilla LP Studios into 5 or 6 different eras (e.g. 1983-1989, 1990-1997, etc), or put them all under "Gibson Les Paul Standard" like we're starting to do with 1954-1983(ish) Strats?

7 months ago

GEAR:

sprucebringsteen|28717 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to pkennethk:

I will say I've noticed a similar trend with Lonestar, Lonestar Deluxe and Eric Clapton Stratocasters, but have already submitted a bunch to be merged. Will probably go back over and make sure I didn't miss any.

7 months ago

GEAR:

pkennethk|26907 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to sprucebringsteen:

I will say I've noticed a similar trend with Lonestar, Lonestar Deluxe and Eric Clapton Stratocasters, but have already submitted a bunch to be merged. Will probably go back over and make sure I didn't miss any.

Having 15+ entries for the same model of guitar isn't so much a trend, as it is the way things have always been here. People tend to want the entry to reflect exactly the guitar they own (model, color, year, spec), not just the model name. But having a hodgepodge of random entries for the same model makes artist submissions more difficult and prevents collecting interesting datapoints like "how many people here have Eric Clapton Strats?" or "How many artists have been spotted with a Clapton Strat?".

The Admins/Founders tend to stay out of dictating exactly how the community should do something, unless it's dramatically impacting SEO/ads... so it's pretty much up to everyone here (we, the community) to figure out the best path.

7 months ago

GEAR:

jimmarchi1|41029 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to pkennethk:

Let me think this over. 'Faded' and 'sstin' finish variants may be significant because the thin coat of lacquer tends to wear off fast of you gig under stage lights regularly... that's significant to me.

Our resident Gibson SME has arrived. Thanks for joining in, Jim!

SME? Simian Manufacturing Expert? You can have a CNC router and a couple chimps build an LP studio... sure! Why not?

but, yeah, I've been known to play some gibsons, for sure. I'm pretty conservative with guitars and amps. A good fender or gibson type model into a fender, marshall or vox is usually okay by me, so I know a lot about those guitars and amps at a micro-level. All that simplicitly requires everything to be functioning at its full potential.

Putting aside the complication of all the limited, faded, special, plus stuff for a moment, what's your take on what to do with the 13 or so vanilla LP Studio entries?

before I put that aside, take for example my LP studio platinum, that model appears at first glance to just be a special finish. But wait a sec; it's got an ebony fretboard with no inlays and a really flat radius, also an extra wide nut/neck like a classical which required different cutting, deep/fat neck profile (ITS BIIIIIG, it might have a long tenon too, I forget now, but there's no other gibson with a neck like it), stock grovers, stock burstbuckers, stock 50s wiring scheme, etc etc (they did an SG special but its less distinct since there was a stock SG special in that finish but with stock appointments, however the platinum has all the LPs features). Back on topic...

Should we break down the vanilla LP Studios into 5 or 6 different eras (e.g. 1983-1989, 1990-1997, etc), or put them all under "Gibson Les Paul Standard" like we're starting to do with 1954-1983(ish) Strats?

I like the idea of eras usually, like what I did when I tried to organize the fender amps. However, that experiment failed miserably. I think this issue will require admin intervention. We need a redesign with a drop-down menu listing all known LP studio variants that we update regularly. This concept goes along with the finish drop-down we've bandied around in modsquad.

EDIT: I've been playing guitar almost as long as there have been studio model les pauls. On the whole they are largely the same thing.., and while they vary some things periodically (like pickups, neck shape or whatnot) they're the same instrument: short tenon neck, no binding anywhere, dot inlays, tulip tuners, mediocre pickups, 300k pots, modern wiring... back in the day the neck profile varied from guitar to guitar to varying degrees each year and usually the titebond was over applied to the neck joint causing issues at the heel as they age LOL. At some point they probably went from rosewood to roasted maple fretboards, but I could be wrong. I wouldn't buy a non-custom-shop gibby these days... things took a sharp dive before my son was born.

7 months ago

GEAR:

pkennethk|26907 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to jimmarchi1:

before I put that aside, take for example my LP studio platinum, that model appears at first glance to just be a special finish. But wait a sec; it's got an ebony fretboard with no inlays and a really flat radius, also an extra wide nut/neck like a classical which required different cutting, deep/fat neck profile (ITS BIIIIIG, it might have a long tenon too, I forget now, but there's no other gibson with a neck like it), stock grovers, stock burstbuckers, stock 50s wiring scheme, etc etc (they did an SG special but its less distinct since there was a stock SG special in that finish but with stock appointments, however the platinum has all the LPs features). Back on topic...

Oohhh I'd love to try one with a chonky neck! But your Platinum would stay listed as a Platinum, that was its name. Eliminating things like "Platinum Limited Edition" is not what I'm getting at here.

Should we break down the vanilla LP Studios into 5 or 6 different eras (e.g. 1983-1989, 1990-1997, etc), or put them all under "Gibson Les Paul Standard" like we're starting to do with 1954-1983(ish) Strats?

I like the idea of eras usually, like what I did when I tried to organize the fender amps. However, that experiment failed miserably. I think this issue will require admin intervention. We need a redesign with a drop-down menu listing all known LP studio variants that we update regularly. This concept goes along with the finish drop-down we've bandied around in modsquad.

I don't think we're going to hear a peep from the Admins on this one.

Wait around for your pet feature here, and you'll have plenty of time to contemplate God's Silence.

https://imgur.com/a/Ezjx642

7 months ago

GEAR:

edgedancer|26291

GEAR:

In reply to pkennethk:

Gibson is not as bad as Fender as far repackaging the same 70yr old design, but there tends to be not a lot of variance between LP models regardless of how many words they add to the base title. The "Faded" Studio models are mostly satin, though most Les Paul Standard models are nitro. There's enough "Faded" Studio models out there that it probably needs its own page separate from the Les Paul Studio. They're meant to mimic 50's, 60's bursts that aged over time. I forgot to include Faded in my post but I think it's a thing. Before Kirk's Greeny reissues came out, Murphy Lab would take Les Paul USA Standard Faded honey burst's and greenyfy them. Also there's a dedicated Faded page on Gibson's website- https://www.gibson.com/collections/gibson-faded-series-electric-guitars.

I would say anything that doesn't have a Plus, Special, Deluxe, HP, 120th Anniversary in the name, is a regular Gibson Les Paul Studio regardless of birthdate, finish or neck profile. I'll kinda describe each one below:

Plus: This is a Studio with a flame top.

Special: This is a Studio with P90's.

Deluxe: This is a Plus with fancy electronics.

HP: Thin neck, heel contours.

Excellent!

So we'd have:

Gibson Les Paul Studio: plain vanilla

Plus: flame top

Special: P90's

Deluxe: a Plus with fancy electronics

HP: Thin neck, heel contours

Baritone: 28" scale

What are the "T" models from last decade?

Are the "Faded" models just a special paint job?

7 months ago

GEAR:

jimmarchi1|41029 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to sprucebringsteen:

I will say I've noticed a similar trend with Lonestar, Lonestar Deluxe and Eric Clapton Stratocasters, but have already submitted a bunch to be merged. Will probably go back over and make sure I didn't miss any.

I've been a strat player all my life and I've probably owned more than are on my "had" list. They're more alike than different. You can hand me most any strat and I'm cool with it. I prefer a soft V or a boat neck but the flat stuff is okay, the so-called C, whatever. I prefer the classic bridge over the 2 pin 'cause the beauty of 6 screws is its easier to stiffen up if you seldom use the vibrato, and stiff springs with the rear of the bridge in a flatter position yields better note transfer and stronger tuning stability... and I'm not afraid to put some arm into my wang bar use. I'll bend a neck with my left or headstock dive a non-vibrato guitar, don't care, I'm not precious. The 2 pin has to float high by design, more tension throws it off so 3 springs with conservative tension. I can rock either version though. I like hardtail a lot too. Like, sometimes you don't need a wang bar??? I grew into the telecaster later, but I love my teles... most stable guitar ever. So I'm a fender-f@cker. I'm not loud about it, but I am. All my fenders but 1 are highly customed out. Just little tweaks to make them their best selves and make my job as a player easy. A fat strat or big apple or whatever, that's a variation, no slanty bridge PUp, but whatever. There's bucker sporting teles too and one or two with a set neck. Strat and tele pickups sound fairly similar and fender could never wind a humbucker. There's better and worse or whatever in the singles, but that's due to material quality and care and only you can hear it LOL. I care, but my audience never has.

I would love to reduce strats and teles down to a few variations by country of origin.

7 months ago

GEAR:

jimmarchi1|41029 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to edgedancer:

satin and faded are still nitrocellulose lacquer, the difference is about number of coats, polishing/sanding and clear coating :-)

7 months ago

GEAR:

edgedancer|26291

GEAR:

In reply to jimmarchi1:

yep should've said full nitro on the standard!

satin and faded are still nitrocellulose lacquer, the difference is about number of coats, polishing/sanding and clear coating :-)

7 months ago

GEAR:

jimmarchi1|41029 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to pkennethk:

Ken, bud, what does SME stand for?

c'mon! I wanna know!!!!!!!!!!

if you want a les paul platinum studio or whatever I have just buy one, its unpopular... about 800 to 1200 clams. I played a numebr of them before buying one. I was short on funds when I played them in person and then bought one sight unseen from seattle and they all play the same. QC was great on this metallic LP studio. Its a really nice guitar, but HEAVY, near or over 9lbs usually. It works though despite 7.5 to 8.5 being ideal LP tone range range according to most cork sniffers. Maybe its not heavy and my back is just middle aged though.... hmmm.

7 months ago

GEAR:

jimmarchi1|41029 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to edgedancer:

yep should've said full nitro on the standard!

satin and faded are still nitrocellulose lacquer, the difference is about number of coats, polishing/sanding and clear coating :-)

all good...

to the tune of tiny dancer: so hold my beer now edgey dancer... gibson only nitro lacquers... I miss my old tweed gibson lancer... because I'm not a pedal stacker

7 months ago

GEAR:

edgedancer|26291

GEAR:

In reply to sprucebringsteen:

And this is why I'm a proponent of expiration dates on submissions. That or add a bump button to submissions!

Also I used to own a 97 USA Lone Star and it was a lemon. The amount of work I put into it just to make it playable. Was able to sell it for some change on reverb though.

I will say I've noticed a similar trend with Lonestar, Lonestar Deluxe and Eric Clapton Stratocasters, but have already submitted a bunch to be merged. Will probably go back over and make sure I didn't miss any.

7 months ago

GEAR:

michael|42641 ADMIN

GEAR:

My view is that we should be as specific as possible.

In practice, that usually means treating an item as distinct when it has a dedicated /p/ page on Reverb, since that gives us the best clarity on year ranges and variations. The same applies when a model is out of production but recognized as a standalone version, such as the faded example.

7 months ago

GEAR:

pkennethk|26907 MODERATOR

GEAR:

In reply to michael:

My view is that we should be as specific as possible.

In practice, that usually means treating an item as distinct when it has a dedicated /p/ page on Reverb, since that gives us the best clarity on year ranges and variations. The same applies when a model is out of production but recognized as a standalone version, such as the faded example.

@Michael, good to hear from you on this one.

Is this your go-ahead to match Reverb's approach as close as we can (see sample below)?

https://imgur.com/mRGUn4a

7 months ago

GEAR:

We have 83 different entries for Gibson Les Paul Studio...

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