Your musician pet peeves

I'm not sure I follow you.

has it ever occured to anyone that perhaps the ear-based approach and lack of in depth specialist knowledge amongst rank and file musicians has contributed to the current disrepute of musicians? Yes Napster and predatory big labels helped destroy the music business but at the same time it beacame suddenly unimpressive to be a musician as the industry went downhill. The social cache of being a musician seemed to fall right off regardless of skill level... there's this 'anyone cna do that' mentality to lstieners now. And a lot of this stuff anyone COULD do if they got ableton or bought a guitar and a copy of garage band... so they have a point. But I defy a novice to do what i do. I defy someone with musical experience but little to no training to do what I do. it may nto eb to your liking, but I dare a theory-hater to write and record a peice in my style, aprticularly harmonically. I don't mean copying ( although i wish you luck figuring out my parts if you don't udnerstand music), I eman sit down and knock of a 3 minute pop tune that isn't the run of the mill 1-4-5 BS and that goes in a little journey with ltos of tension and unexpected turns... and make it WORK. Where I'm not like "that feels like a different song jammed on there at bar 16)

I'm sitting at home finishing a product review for Equipbaord today and I am all bothered by the world of music. Popualr music that is... especially punk rockers. I lvoe punk rock but its like a free ticket to do soemthing generic and shitty these days and sell it with a pair of Vans...

I'm unable to say you're wrong. I alsp dont HATE theory. I just dpn't know it, and don't feel its 100% necessary fpr my style. Thats all.

I am replying to noone in particular.

I do NOT know my theory.

I BELIEVED it would never bother me... because none of my friends knew theory either.

I BELIEVED I was a competent writer.

Then I started writing in a new style. I had to walk away from what my friends were doing, because I was heading somewhere different, and at the time they chose not to follow. I was fine with this.

It was a hybrid of two of my favourite styles; Goth and heavier thrashy guitar styles, that formed one end of a concept album. More about that in another post...

I required a keyboard player who could do what I needed to happen in my songs... I could HEAR what I wanted inside my head... that is how I write music... I hear what is not there. Only with this project...it was so foreign to my thinking, I only heard the parts like a whisper, or something happening in another room, that I could not hear well because of all the noise in THIS room.

Then I met her.

A Classically trained Grade 5 (at that stage) pianist. I convinced her, over a period of months that she should have a listen to my music.

This is where the problems started.

She was theoretically mined. She could not pick something up by ear the way I could. She would write things down, but I couldn't understand them.

So I described the emotion behind a particular song... (and to me it was a heavy emotional song), I described to her what I was hearing being whispered. I gave her a copy of it to listen to, in a gtr/ bass/ drum/ voc format.

She played a part so alien to my thinking that it fit PRESICELY into the song. It was the most complete I had ever felt.

I asked her to join the band. She thought about it and declined. It was not her time.

I never learned how to play that song with her part. Never got to record it and the only written copy she had (because she could only read music) went with her. Every time I tried to listen to that song from that point in, I heard whispers of that part.... but they slipped away. I found I could no longer hear my song when playing or working on it anymore. It was gone... just like she was.

If I had known some theory, I could have made a difference.

I have found that communicating with musicians is next to impossible if you cannot speak the language. I am a competent player.. maybe more than competent. I consider myself inventive and resourcful and can play almost anything with little prompting.

But when I try and explain what I am doing to a musician who SPEAKS music... I am the tourist trying asking for a place to live.. and being shown where the toilet is!

Every language has a word for a foreigner who lives in a place and refuses to learn the language or respect the cultures.... What are musicians calling you?

that is sucha great story and I really liked your 'foreigner who doesn't speak the language' metaphor which is apt for sound design, recording and mixing as well as classical music theory. The thing is, if you really delve into how we got to the western musical system and developed the repertoir of techniques and terms we all rely on whether we know it or not? Its pretty damned interesting.

Its hard for people to wrap their head around how important the language is and WHY everyone got on board with it for hundreds of eyars because we live in an age where recording is availaiible toe veryone who cna afford an instrument to create music with. Even for odler guys like me, Terry and Zaq this is true because for getting ideas down without knowing theory or ebign able to read notation we came from the age of cassette tapes. Even if you didn't have a 4 track everyone had a tapedeck or a boombox and blank cassettes were cheap. You have to imagine a world where there was no sound recording to really get inspired about notation, chord names, scales and the general theory of music. Imagine a world where people don't have TV and the only way for them to hear music was by going to hear it or performing it themselves. This was a rgeat situation, ahd technology developed faster than music theory I don't think we would have such a rich musical tradition. The needs of pre-modern musicians spurred all this rich development that each of us has een so lucky to inherit. Try to appreciate it and be a broader part of it.

You've both persuaded me. I think I'm gonna go out today, and get a book.

also, go on youtube and look up Howard Goodall and then watch all his BBC music documentaries. Start with "Howard Goodall's story of music". Then do the brief, basic and informative "how music works". The four 20th century masters episodes will also likely open your mind. yes they include pop musicians. The Beatles and Cole Porter. They also include film music (that happens to be the first electronic music) and the mighty and udnerappreciated West Side Story, work of genius that defies genre and tckles very adult social themes in its libreto setting the stage for the rock opera, concept album and even presaging some modern pop punk you might just love, like American Idiot. Oh, and you will be surprised how much the coreography influenced music video. justw atch the film with an open mind.

Even without the theory background you can grow as a musician just by lsitening to some of the music Goodall talks about in these shows witha fresh set of ears and his insight on what to listen for.

Thanksforthe recommendation.

Howard Goddall's Beatles video is so awesome! I just watched it again the other day but I had to pause to write a song. Not the 1st time that's happened! It's that inspiring.

Super fun place to start thinking about music theory & expanding your emotional vocablulary musically. It's absolutely A+! Can't recommend it enough!

I'd hazard that no matter how skeptical you might be about music theory that video will leave you so psyched to play.

Everything he's done is fantastic but that one in particular is just such a great place to jump in.

Anyone concerned that learning theory might lead to loosing your creative honest expression I promise you that if you're a creative person who loves music that it's not that fragile, it's baked into you. If it can be taken away by learning a few chord names, concepts, whatever? You've got bigger problems!

Those people we all meet who make just the worst music but act superior for understanding the language of music yet have no grasp on the aesthetic are just people with crappy taste. They just happen to know some musical terms, etc. We all know the hugely accomplished players that nobody wants to listen to. Meh, blow 'em off. They never got it to begin with-the theory isn't at fault. Theory can't fix bad taste any more than it can take away good instincts!

Thanks guys, I am setting up to watch the video now.... wish me luck

Let us know what ya think!

So?!

did u get time to check it out?

Get it off your chest, nickgrooves, that's what this thread is for :-D

Haha so in other words when people completely ignore the question you're asking?

Yes @gchiaren. That is my musician pet peeve. I suppose it is a general pet peeve of all peoples but musicians (who are often gear-conscious or tech savvy) are frequent offendors.

whoa, necroposting

LOL that's a new word! Heck man I ain't dead yet.