a giant thread about... AMPS!

Not just specs though..opinions. good, bad, anything.

hmmmmmmm

the JC120 is its own thing, wasn't my cup of tea... it will sound extremely tight and sterile compared to your laney, but more... hmm, whats a good word? precise! it has a precise sound. On the hifi side of things, but not unflatteringly hifi. Its also one of the 'warmer' sounding solid state amps, similar to a polytone combo... BUT! it is HEAVY! even by tube amp standards

the chorus is just to die for though

Is it the post by which all clean styled amps are measured? Is it "the best clean amp"?

hahaha... no, there's no BEST CLEAN OR DIRTY AMP! some will love the mesa, err PEAVEY 5150 for example, I do not, even if I wanted that type of sound I prefer a Soldano (less overall gain, but I don't need that much gain).... The JC120 is great at a certain type of clean, sure.... hard to explain.... JC120s are in stores, they are affordable, try one I guess... I suppose some will use the JC120 as the yardstick of clean tones, but most people would not, no

I just read a really cool Josh Homme quote that seemed worth sharing 'cuz I kinda did this in a way. I ahd a 1 channel Fender with just volume, treble and bass for a while (well, there was verb and trem I never used unless I was recording or playing in a big band) and got seduced into Marshalls with all those extra knobs and inputs and stuff and was actually having a bit of trouble figuring out some of them, just wasn't getting THAT sound, especially out of that 1st Superlead. And I started scoring some even simpler amps with just volume and tone or even just volume alone and I started playing into the amp and really changing my right hand technique some, so when I went back to the big amps I stopped twiddling the knobs and jumping channels looking for my sound and just set her to sound flat and clear around 2 or 3 and then brought the level on up until I felt like I could sound like me. I had gotten my 1st ac30 at this time too and I started rocking the normal channel ALL THE TIME. Or I would just jack both top boost knobs down but gun that channels volume way up. So without further adieu, here's the quote I promised:

"The real beauty of guitar playing is the act of finding things out for yourself. The best gear advice I can offer is to play through an amp with one volume knob and one tone knob and see if you can make that sound good. You'll learn more from doing that than from knowing the details of my rig." -Josh Homme

So, the Laney Lionheart L20T 212 combo. Opinions? I really like it it seems like a perfect mix of vox and Marshall to me, hand built and hand wired here in the U.K too and £870, I think I should really invest in one. I won't bother getting any more effects till I'm established with one too if I go for it in two months. What do you guys think of this amp? I think I may have found my dream amp. 4 EL84s in the power section and either 3 or 4 12ax7s in the preamp. Has a Celestion Vintage 30 and a Celestion G12H anniversary in the cab. These speakers really complement each other in my opinion and can the G12H takes away alot of the ice picky ness of the V30. So what do you guys think? Should I put my money into this amp?

I've used my buddy's Lionheart L5 and its like a marshall 800 front end slaved to an ac4 poweramp, sounds pretty good, though at full 800 gain levels she wallops the power amp pretty damn hard. A bit over the top unless you are doing bedroom levels at night, but the 20 watter should have the headroom to use all that extra preamp gain effectively. Never one to play quietly but also not being a crazy gainiac I preferred her with drive mode disabled just pushing the whole amp a little into a natural singing distortion when I dug in, like I now use my ac4. Very similar amps, slightly different voicing and architecture in gain mode and in regular mode still pretty different but capable of very similar tones but using different settings. Great build quality and really flattered by the stock G12H (one of my favorite speakers ever). The L20 is two EL34 tubes in parallel single ended, true class A if I recall. Should sound pretty mean at all points of the volume dial, but you will never get significant poweramp distortion without pushing stage volumes. However, it should gently glide into some saturation at reasonable home levels with the high gain mode engaged. The gain mode definitely sounds better when you are working the tubes a bit in this type of amp even if the power amp is not producing any significant distortion of its own. I also tried a Laney 50 watt lionheart with 5 EL34 tubes in parallel single ended and thought it was harsh in gain mode and too loud for most people if pushed into natural distortion via clean mode (though it was totally glorious), so try one and see if the gain mode is too harsh on the 20 watter. And you are talking to a guy who LOVES bright amps with plenty of upper-midrange kerrang, but there is a point where enough is enough. I thought the L50 crossed the threshold of where it would cut the mix and got into ear fatigue turf, but when I cut treble and/or mids it lost some magic. You need to hit a store, give her a erious workout, and see what you think (then report back because I have been curious about the 20 watt lionheart having tried the 5 and the 50 already).

I will say that before you even mentioned the Lionhearts I was remembering my buddy's 5 watter and was thinking I should get one to party with my ac4 when I need a little more power and could bring a little marshalliness in from another small amp rather than just gauge up to an ac30.... usually I am iffy on Laney, but their handwireds are generally up to snuff. The use of true class A is awesome. No one else does it at these kidna power levels (hell, even a small parallel single-ended is rare, I can only think of like 3 ever, the Gibsonette from the 50s, the Captain and Major crunch amps by Scumbag that borrow from the Gibsonette and the THD Bivalve which is quite a gimmicky version with the mix-and-match tubes feature... it took balls for laney to run FIVE EL34s so inefficiently for the sake of cool tone when two in fixed-bias, push pull will produce 50 watts easily and be less prone to noise just because that's what's great about class AB amps... they coulda done cathode bias class A with 4 matched EL34s and got at least 60 watts and a close-enough sounds, but the phase inverter and such would change the power amp response to something more like a loud-ass vox or tweed deluxe).

TMI, right? sorry....

Had a look at the specs, 3 12ax7's and 4 el84s in parallel and single ended, each producing 5watts. Awesome sounding amp, breaks up very early, with humbuckers at about 4 on the clean volume and 5 or 6 with single coils but I just love the way it breaks up on the clean channel. I may find myself just controlling my overdrive/distortion with the guitar volume control and if I want more gain just boosting it with the CM-2. I'll have to see if anywhere local has one I can try out after the new year. Shame that the video I watched never shown how it breaks up in the low gain input but alwell, I can find that out for myself huh?

I'm not sure if I would just replace that V30 with a G12H

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VQzYjWFriw

why do you refer to digital videos of big 'ol amps through 12" drivers recorded, processed, dithered down, streamed through a tiny little cable, coverted back to video and audio in the elasta ccurate way passable and then played back through little 8" drivers with a tweeter or smaller?

have I mentioned I don't trust gear demos?

but seriously, do you hear that fizz in the top even on the clean channel? that's what the 50 watter did. I am sure its more pronounced through a microphone (I only noticed it with the gain channel on the 50 watter), but ugh. That kinda bothers me. The 5 watter doesn't have that. Its neither crunch nor growl. Maybe that's what EL34s do single ended? I don't encounter single ended 34s much, always 6V6es and 84s. I guess if you drove the power amp even harder that fizzy top would turn into something crunchy and authoritative.... but then later in the video he goes abtshit with the gain and its outta control exploding amp bad.... its probably just the video. I ahte gear videos. But beware the laney harsh to end. Its chimey clean and then hard and harsh distorted, but ceases to cut the mix in a band if you smooth out the tone controls too much.

On the other hand? I was listening to TAD yesterday. TAD did not give a fuck about guitar tone. It rocked. I mean they named an album "God's Balls"

I don't trust gear videos either, I don't see them as a true representation of what a amp can do etc. Just the closest I can get to seeing how it sounds without going to a guitar store that stocks them as these none around me as far as I know so will have to get a train to Guilford and go to andertons to try it haha.

I can hear that fizz too I think alot if it is how the cab is micced and having a V30 gives it extra fizz? I do like it alot though. I'll have to try one out soon

Well, you don't have to go try it. You could just buy it online from somewhere with a no wuestions asked return policy.

I guess I could

I take back what I said, get the train to Anderton's. Call a sanity day. Pawn the kids off on your folks for a visit, tell your wife to find something to do with her friends for the afternoon and kick it up there (down there, out there, over there?) with your guitar. Try the Laney and try a bunch of other amps in that wattage range at every price point. Have them break out a DS1 and a muff fro you and have at it at full volume and bedroom levels too. Allow at least 3 hours of store time. If you are happy with the laney then buy it. If not head home and think it over. And when you get back take your wife out to dinner and a movie to keep the homefront in order. She'll say she's cool with you taking the day to try amps, but always hedge your bets with music shit because wives say a lot of things. I know about these things.

Haha, my fiancee is good, she likes going to music stores with me and usually tries getting me to buy everything I want even though 99% of time we don't have the money lol. But don't sound like a bad idea haha

The resale on lesser known boutiques is kinda crappy, I don't know why.

LOVE the Fuchs stuff, built to survive a war... I don't know why more builders aren't doing single ended EL34 amps.... I always want a little it more from my ac4 when I am jamming with a drummer.... You see single ended 6L6 amps, but they don't crunch up like a 6V6, EL84 or an EL34. Nothing wrong with 6L6es, but regardless of the circuit design if you are getting most of your breakup from the power tube(s) they are a totally different distortion character.

I have to say I do NOT like Dr Z's amps other than the Route66. That's his thing and it really does the business, I would buy one. But my experience trying a mini Z was a total let down, and the mazerati I owned? Took it back. Total bedroom player's amp.

So does the Lockard have a bassman/plexi cathode follower tone stack shared between 2 channels feeding maybe a single ended 6L6 for 8 clean watts?

Joe Walsh agrees with BOSS.

I agree with anything that sounds good in context.... I have owned and enjoyed many boss products, then another project comes along and they don't cut it because they don't fit the context of the songs and I need to figure out what does

not being a Joe Walsh, I can't afford to keep everything, so I tend to do a lot of buying and selling to get the sounds I want, but given my druthers I would keep every effect and amp and continually build my tonal liabrary

I have a question will a 20w tube head into a 412 cab be too loud for home use? I know it would be pretty damn good for live usage because 20w isn't massively loud as far as tube amps go. They make that Laney in a 20w head so tempted to go down the head and cab route, thinking of buying a empty 212 or 412 and getting some celestions of my choice with it. Dunno if I should go this route or just a 212 combo :P