Are the Laney LA100BL and the 100W Supergroup the same amp?

We currently have two separate items for the LA100BL and the 100-watt Supergroup head, but are they really just the same amp? Moreover, I haven't found much literature predating the limited reissue that refers to the "pre-Supergroup" amps as "LA100BL": is that a later term re-popularized by the reissue?

BONUS: Does anyone know a primary or secondary source that clarifies whether or not Tony Iommi used a 60-watt Laney head for Black Sabbath and Paranoid? I've found a couple of tertiary sources (here and here), but neither is reliable.

I'm pretty sure the entry for LA100BL is for the 1960s original and the 100-watt Supergroup refer to the contemporary reissue run. We definitely should have 2 different entries for the OG and the reissue, but I couldn't tell you definitively that this is what these two entries were intended to be used for by whoever created them.

I see similar lack of info re: when the "supergroup" moniker started being applied to this line of Laneys.

I'm pretty sure the entry for LA100BL is for the 1960s original and the 100-watt Supergroup refer to the contemporary reissue run.

That's just it. The 100-watt Supergroup item (submitted by our fellow moderator jimmarchi1) "about 9 years ago" predates the reissue. Moreover, we already have a separate item for the reissue (submitted by rnfnr "almost 8 years ago"). The "LA 100 BL" item was submitted by ahmed_abdelazim "about 8 years ago".

I think we would need Jim to weigh in.

I believe they're the same amp, which is a 100 watt superlead circuit equipped with partridge transformers like hiwatt used. The old ones go by various designations. I think the supergroup tag came in later. I'm not sure about the reissues.

I believe they're the same amp, which is a 100 watt superlead circuit equipped with partridge transformers like hiwatt used. The old ones go by various designations. I think the supergroup tag came in later. I'm not sure about the reissues.

Very well, then. A duplicate item has been submitted for these, with Jim's item to be kept. I also changed its image from the reissue to a vintage unit.

I hope I got this right. I know the pre supergroup amps are the same as the supergroup amps, it really is just a plexi knockoff with different components. The first circuit change I know of at laney is the Klip series which is meant to fo iommi without an external boost.

I hope I got this right. I know the pre supergroup amps are the same as the supergroup amps, it really is just a plexi knockoff with different components.

I think you’re right. The amps look identical on the outside, too.

The first circuit change I know of at laney is the Klip series which is meant to fo iommi without an external boost.

The irony of that is that Iommi doesn’t like the Klipps. I just read that today in a Total Guitar interview:

“With our last album [2013’s 13] Rick Rubin wanted it to sound like the early days and he said, ‘Can you get any of your original amps?’ It was 50 years ago - where are we going to store amps for 50 years? We arrive in the studio and they’ve got a rack full of amps in there and I said to the engineer, ‘What’s all this?’

“He said, ‘Rick ordered them.’ ‘Why?’ All these old vintage Marshalls and about three Laney Klipp amps, which I had never used but he assumed I had. So I got in there and said, ‘I don’t need these.’ But he said Rick’s ordered them, so at least give them a try. I tried them and I didn’t like them. I said to Rick, ‘Just because they’re vintage amps, it doesn’t mean they sound good.’

“So we had this little thing about what we should sound like. He even phoned this bloke up who he said knew how to get my sound. I said: ‘I’m the one who got the sound. Why were you calling someone else about how to get my sound?’ In the end I used my own amp that I designed [TI 100]. Not the new ones - I wish I’d had those then.”

Yeah, I remember Iommi saying he disliked the Klipp. His TT100 is just s juiced up GL100 which is just a tweaked jcm800 2203. They're all just hotrodded tweed bassmans.

I just found that Sterling#Sound of The Gear Page has helpful insights.

Is that the owner of Sterling or one of the other mastering engineers? I took a few things up there in my old band when they had a deal with our label but prefer to work with Jeff Lipton. I didn't like what Ue dud with our stuff, nothing against him. Very knowledgeable guy.

Anyway, everything Sterling said is dead on. If I'm not mistaken the LA50 has lower plate voltages and shared cathodes on V1 like a jtm45 or early blackflag jtm50. I think the BL stands for bass and lead because the 2 halves of v1 (each half is a channel with its own volume and they sum at the next stage) is biased up and bypassed totally independently whereas shared cathodes both channels are the same apart from coupling and bright caps which come after the tube and form crude high pass filters. Marshall brought this in around 69 or 70 and it really delineates the Marshall sound from the bassman sound.

Is that the owner of Sterling or one of the other mastering engineers?

He has a YouTube Channel in his signature if you’d like to see.

but prefer to work with Jeff Lipton

Ah, your buddy! I just saw his name attached to a Daptone record last week: Reigning Sound’s Shattered.

I think the BL stands for bass and lead because the 2 halves of v1 (each half is a channel with its own volume and they sum at the next stage) is biased up and bypassed totally independently whereas shared cathodes both channels are the same apart from coupling and bright caps which come after the tube and form crude high pass filters.

BL may have also distinguished from the PA models.

but prefer to work with Jeff Lipton

Ah, your buddy! I just saw his name attached to a Daptone record last week: Reigning Sound’s Shattered.

If I have a couple good experiences with a collaborator I'm fiercely loyal to them. Speaking of Daptone, their Harrison MR4 console us on reverb but I have a bad feeling it'll need a lot of work if they decommissioned it. It's not priced all that well for a less popular Harrison model.

BL may have also distinguished from the PA models.

Of course but I think its base and lead like the marshall 20watt lead and bass.

Speaking of Daptone, their Harrison MR4 console us on reverb but I have a bad feeling it'll need a lot of work if they decommissioned it. It's not priced all that well for a less popular Harrison model.

Really? Where? All I could find was their Trident 65.

EDIT: Apparently Portugal. The Man is seeking [EDIT: typo, should be “selling”] a decommissioned MR4, too.

Really? Where? All I could find was their Trident 65.

It WAS a trident sorry... it's amazing what thru did with that 65, it's a mediocre desk. Just a soundcraft with an inflated pricetag.

EDIT: Apparently Portugal. The Man is seeking a decommissioned MR4, too.

That's the MR4. Got them mixed up.

I found an old Laney ad that lists the LA 100 BL! It’s on page 30 of the July 1972 issue of Beat Instrumental.