JCM 800 vs JCM 900

Which amp should I get?

The JCM 800: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Marshall-JCM-800-Lead-Series-4212-50-Watt-2-x-12-Guitar-Combo-Amplifier-/142218750421?hash=item211ce5e9d5:g:eBIAAOSwgZ1XtdUM

Or...

The JCM 900 (with a 1960A 4x12): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marshall-JCM900-Model-4500-50W-Tube-Guitar-Amplifier-Head-/152367701881

Which amplifier out of the two could achieve the tone in this song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uV4lgIFmDc

Look at Matthew Bellamy equipboard page. He uses neither but you might be able to draw your own comparisons by listening to YouTube demos of his amps vs yours. Sounds a bit clean for an 800. Even on really low gain there is a bit of snarl in it. Maybe the more modern 900 would provide the cleans you will need and allow for that little bit of breakup. Maybe it is a matchless or AB switching between a Jazz Chorus or a Vox and something heavier. Or knowing Muse it is several amps on several tracks.

I've actually found a pretty good setting by cranking up my AC30.

Matt definitely just used a Matchless DC30 in that song. That was the only amp he had back in 1998 when he recorded that.

... matching a matchless....

Hm? I don't quite understand that comment.

You are trying to match the sound of an amp that is called matchless, meaning it cannot be matched. I find humour where most don't.

Lol, I get it :P

I have a number of AC30s and a Matchless... they're very similar, the matchless circuit is based on an ac30, but its beefed up. Someone once described the difference this way 'a DC30 is a vintage ac30 that's quit smoking and drinking and started going to the gym every day.' But they are very similar amps. Apples and Apples. Far more similar than an 800 and 900 (though there are a number of different 800 and 900 models and some are more similar than others). An 800 is basically a plexi with the channels cascaded and a master added whereas all 900s owe their topology to the Silver Jubilee model but in all honesty the silver jubilee sounds better than any of the channel switching 900s. I did rather like my single channel 900 SLX when I ahd it. It was very 80s sounding in a good way, closer to the Jubilee's gain channel.

if you really want to get into it all I could go on. I sued to be a real marshall-head before getting into vox and matchless.

You are trying to match the sound of an amp that is called matchless, meaning it cannot be matched. I find humour where most don't.

Matchless is actually named after the vintage motorcycle brand, when Mark Samson (cofounder of matchless) wasn't restoring vintage vox amps he was really into british motorcycles... no joke

but matchless amps are very good and still rank as some of the best sounding boutique circuits

So, my AC30 cranked will get a similar tone to that?

yes... it'll be a little spongier and grainier, less 3D.... if its a custom classic it will probably be brighter and tinnier all other things being equal (a stock DC30 comes with mismatched ceramic celestions.... old ones have a M25 greenback and a V30 and newer ones have a M25 with an H30 greenback and that effects the sound a bit). When cranked, even with smaller dual rectifiers the Matchless is tighter, punchier and clearer sounding than any ac30 ever made. Its brighter and bassier than vintage examples due to the increased power filtering, precise wiring, and high quality components.

The only exception is if the sound was achieved with the DC30 pentode channel. The only ac30s that cop that are original 4 input black panels and the heritage models that came out before the current HW series. The EF86 pentode is a unique and special snowflake in preamp tubes. Its a hifi/pro-audio tube that's very unique and has a special and unique behavior in guitar circuits that even other preamp pentodes don't replicate. There's nothing quite like it and its the reason I will never sell my HC30. Cranking the normal channel of an ac30 with a treble boost will get you in the right ballpark, but a 12ax7 just can't do what the EF86 does. It doesn't have the gain, wide frequency response or compression characteristics before the onset of audible distortion. Nothing does. Not everyone likes the EF86 channel and its very dependent on the quality of the tube used... odds are the sound you seek is a top boost sound and you can just use your ac30s TB channel, fiddle the tone controls to get your desired frequency response and then turn her up to about 5 and slowly goose her up or down from there until its doing the business.

a cranked ac30 in good nick is loud as all fuck, brace yourself.

Alright cool, thanks.

My AC30 is an AC30C2, and I've got an MXR EQ pedal, a Pro Co Rat 2, and a Moog MF Drive (and I've got a Telecaster with a Custom Fender Humbucker in the bridge)

With that gear, what do you think could get me closest to the Matchless DC30 breakup sound that Bellamy got?

when I talk about the Matchless thing it is SO CLOSE TO THE VOX THING in the mix, you hear the difference more in your bedroom or when you are recording -- neither one is better, noth are great versions of the cathode biased el84 tone.... sadly you have one of the weakest versions of the ac30, no offense, but I am an ac30 nut and yours is the furthest off the mark (I mean the matchless is off the amrk but in a good way, whereas the CCs are off in a weak way)

1st get rid of the pedals, they are eating dynamic response and bandwidth which is the hallmark of good C30 tone.... turn your amp way up, at least to 5, disengage the master and adjust from there... a good guitar with nice sounding wood and great electronics from pickups to output jack will help (hint, fender still can't make a passable humbucker).... good in means good out... I suspect that sound is amp and guitar using the TB channel... plug straight in, turn up and fiddle... also make sure your playing is up to snuff, the whole lineage of the ac30 is fast response so sloppy playing means bad sound. Voxes are unforgiving amps, more like hiwatts than marahalls

just so you know I'm not a wanker I own a '62 JMI ac30b with factory-installed top boost module, an arbiter era ac30, a 90s korg reissue and a current fawn handwired (shockingly kick ass amp I play more than any other amp in my stash).... I also own a slightly more affordable copy of a Matchless HC30 (head version DC30) and every single one is different with a wide overlap but with each offering tones that none of the others can cover if you want to be nitpicky

Well know i feel pretty bad about my gear, a weak ac30, bad pedals, and a non-passable humbucker, lol

But thanks for the reply! I can't really turn up my amp that loud though, as I am in a bedroom and I have neighbors.

If I put the MXR EQ at the end of my pedal chain, it will act as a buffer for all the other pedals. Also I want to use my pedals. Do you have any other ideas for what I could do to get that kind of DC30 tone? Right now I can't afford a new humbucker for my guitar, so mine will have to do for now.

no one said your gear sucked, I just said your ac30 is the furthest from your target tone and that pedals is no the answer... if you want to be a whiney child I am sure here's a forum for that some where, but here I will point out that good hand technicque is more critical than quality gear to any task.... learn the parts well and own them..

Ok, I understand what you're saying.

I was partially joking when I said you made me feel bad about my gear, I wasn't trying to come off as a "whiny child."

Is there really nothing I can do without buying anything else? Just to ditch the pedals, plug into the top boost channel, crank it, and play well?

Also, all of my pedals are true bypass except the MXR 10 band EQ. If I put it into the effects loop will it still affect my tone? I still want to use my pro co rat and moog for a lead boost and heavy distortion, and have the tone of the DC30 come from the amp, but since the pedals are true bypass, it won't be different from just plugging straight into the amp, right?

Also is the Fender humbucker really that bad?

an ac30 should not have an FX loop, its blasphemy.... don't use it

given the placement of the master volume in modern ac30s and matchless type circuits its utterly pointless as it falls before the master and just screws with the impedance and gain of your signal stripping the amp of its natural character... FX loops are a fine thing in gain banger amps with a master volume before the phase inverter, but they are a joke in an ac30 with the matchless style post-phase-inverter master volume control (which is the master circuit used by korg on ALL their tube amps since the 90s)

The EQ is the only pedal I have that isn't true bypass, so it is the only pedal I have that's degrading my tone, but I wanna keep it, therefore I should put it in the effects loop... what's so bad about an AC30 fx loop?

read above, I edited my original post.... an ac30 needs very little to deliver tone

even true bypass pedal are adding capacitance to your signal when disengaged, ditch anything you don't need... bands in the studio rarely use full pedalboards... embrace your vox and learn its secrets by paying naked for a few months. Its an incredibly versatile and powerful music making tool. Until you really know its secrets and how to get all the classic vox tones from it with nothing but your guitar and hands you should leave ff the pedals. They can be cool into a vox, but voxes are picky about pedals.... learn its secrets and add the pedals back when you know what it can do solo. Its far more versatile and subtle than a BF fender or a marshall. I have an effects rig, but I can play a gig with just an ac30 no problem. It does the business with nothing added but unlocking those sounds can be challenging as its limited controls are powerful but not intuitive.