JCM 800 vs JCM 900

I still really want to use my pedals, so here's my plan:

I'll start with getting a true bypass aby switcher (to switch the channels on my amp from normal clean to top boost crunch) because that's what I wanted first. A buffer pedal will just clean up my tone quite a bit and solve the pedal problem but I'll start with the switcher and then eventually grab a buffer when i get the chance.

Sounds good?

you can do whatever you want, you asked for advice on a specific sound, its a cranked matchless or ac30 with nothing out front (or maybe a boost or light drive). Otherwise YMMV. I think vox owners should definitely learn their amps forawhile. They are not obvious and tons of secret, classic sounds are locked in there and effects make it trickier to find them. By all emans add the FX back when you grok the ac30, but as of now if you can't get that Muse tone you don't grok the amp and how to set it and play into it to get it to do what you want. It will do what you want, but you need to spend time loving it up.

https://youtu.be/yLisM2KPDIA?t=8s

You say I need to play with just the guitar and amp, no pedals, but won't a buffer in front of pedals give off the same sound?

Matt Bellamy also had loads of pedals in front of his DC-30, so what's the problem with using a buffer?

Also, thanks for all the replies! You seem really smart about this :)

1) your EQ pedal is a buffer when bypassed unless its an old model, like pre-1980 stuff... your TC delay also has a buffered bypass mode, the 'trails' mode and the TC buffer is pretty good as far as affordable pedals with a buffer go

2) there's nothing wrong with it, I am merely suggesting you learn what your amp can do with nothing in line for a few weeks and then add your effects back in and make sure that you are able to get it to sound the same with your effects in line and if it doesn't figure out the culrpits and change your effects chain only once you know what the amp is really capable of on its own... not all buffers are created equal, none are truly transparent and you would know this if you understood what they do electronically and the reasons someone chooses to buffer their signal and where in the chain it should go to reap maximum benefit...

anyway, it just seems like you are not intimate with your amp and its a pretty good amp capable of a lot of great sounds without effects.... its just easier to build a relationship with your amp using only a cable for a little while, especially when its an amp as unique as the ac30. I know the Muse guy is a pretty big FX head, but he's got a good core tone and that's the basic building block you're seeking. The ac30 will do a lot of heavy lifting for you tonally if you figure out how to get the most out of her.

Alright, thanks so much!

I'll definitely try playing it with no pedals for awhile, and if I like it, then I'll eventually add on pedals to the chain. If I REALLY like it, then I can sell all my pedals and just get an ABY box and have that be my only pedal.

So, I guess the answer is that the tone achieved on this particular muse song is a dc30 or cranked ac30 with vol 5 and tb on, that does not rely on pedals. His humbucker may be running a bit hotter than yours, so tweak in post if you are recording this, or maybe use the eq to flesh it out if playing the song live. Bellamy does use a lot of pedals, but if you have an amp that you KNOW and FEEL, you can build a fantastic strong base jump in point for just about anything. It is entirely likely that he may just be driving the amp throughout the song and simply colouring and flashing with pedals.

Matt bellamy never really used an AC30 until black holes and revelations and after, which is after the song I linked. It's definitely a cranked DC-30 that he's playing, and he did have a lot of pedals, but no drive pedals. Even in that song you can hear him use a Digitech Whammy.

the DC30, as I said, is virtually the same amp as an AC30 on the top boost channel.... theyc an be made to sound VERY similar if you spend some time just with the amp getting to know the intricacies of the tone control interactions and how it responds to your picups... some of it will be in your playing, the ac30 is pretty sensitive to technique... just don't turn your effects on until you have the sound since Bellamy isn't using any drive stuff

I was able to get a pretty good sound that's similar to the DC30 with just my guitar and amp. When I add the pedals, the tone gets muffled and granier.

yeah, the ac30 type design is pedal unfriendly.... really sensitive to impedance! you have to spend a lot of time tweaking your FX chain not to degrade your core tone

see? I'm not crazy. Apart from understanding the electrical aspects I am also MR AC30

EDIT: now you wanna address your FX chain... dump the EQ completely, make sure the TC is in true bypass mode and then see what you get.... if its good, then the impedance change frm the buffer is the problem and you can either try a better buffer or just forget about buffering.... if the sound is still grainy look at the jumper cables between your pedals. Maybe theyr'e putting the drag on your signal? You can't reduce the capacitance from the internal bypass wiring on your FX but making sure you have short, low capacitance leads between them will probably help. Also, use the shortest, best quality cable you can get away with from guitar to FX and FX to amp. On a different amp this wouldn't be such a big deal, but voxes, hiwatts etc are really sensitive designs.

I never said you were crazy :P

I'm in a bit of a dillema right now. I want to be able to use my pedals but not get a grainy and muffled tone. All of my pedals (even the TC ones) degrade the tone, so I'm really confused (also I don't really wanna ditch the EQ).

Any other ways I could go about this? Or is just getting a buffer the only solution?

I use a TC Flashback X4 with ac30s and have no issue, again, check your cables

I'm not sure what anyone needs an EQ for outside gimmick sounds in the studio where you shape the sound really ahrd before it overloads an amp or you filter a vintage fuzz pedal or something ala dave Gilmour... if your guitar sounds good and your amp is a good amp you should be covered. Embrace that combination and make it your own. All the circuitry in an EQ is a real tone sucker. Its a really complicated circuit and to keep the price point reasonable they usually aren't using audiophile components and in circuits like EQ you really want really high end parts like in studio equipment. I find I can achieve more frequency changing effects with good hand technique than I ever could with EQ.... if I want really drastic esponse changes I use my guitar controls in conjunction with different picking/strumming emthods and positions in relation to the bridge and I can get hundreds of very distinct sounds from a guitar as simple as an SG using the normal channel on an AC30 with no tone controls at all. Or the other good EQ-like trick is to straight up swap guitars on some songs during the set. I always enjoy playing a show with a Gibson and a Fender using the same amp settings. Instant EQ change for that jangly ballad and then you go SG to bring back the rock.

so anyway, check your cables, look at a boutique EQ if you must or just embrace the sonic hash when your pedals are disengaged, which a lot of guys do without ever worrying about it.

Alright, thanks for the help! I really appreciate it :D

yeah, no problem, cheers, happy new year

you too :D