Opinions on Mackie Onyx mixers ?

shrinking the middle class means shrinking mid-range products too.

Either its the cheapest crap or its priced out of range...

I try not to talk politics and economics here but amen.

I meant anyone here using a mixer of decent size in their project studio that might want to educate themselves along with me.

Oh yeah. Derp. Now I get it. My kid is turning my brain to mush!

I'm by no means an expert on all things mixer but I can definitely talk shop on IC based desks on and the SSLs are even more IC based than I had realized, just a different riff on the trident 80b recipe with extra seasoning and lots of garnishes.

Edit:

Any thoughts on what to name the thread?

I'm a bit of a PT Barnum when it comes to thread naming, I want butts in seats. Your good taste might steer you to something better than what I'd reach for:

"SSL Big SiX really worth it?"

"Opinions on SSL Big SiX?"

"Breaking down the SSL BiG SiX"

"Is the SSL Sound really worth it?"

etc etc

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the angle you wanna start from.

shrinking the middle class means shrinking mid-range products too.

Either its the cheapest crap or its priced out of range...

I try not to talk politics and economics here but amen.

I missed ajaik's DL political dig on first-read, but I appreciate it.

I missed ajaik's DL political dig on first-read, but I appreciate it.

I'm resisting the urge to trot out my Keynes, Smith and Marx

Edit:

Any thoughts on what to name the thread?

I'm a bit of a PT Barnum when it comes to thread naming, I want butts in seats. Your good taste might steer you to something better than what I'd reach for:

"SSL Big SiX really worth it?"

"Opinions on SSL Big SiX?"

"Breaking down the SSL BiG SiX"

"Is the SSL Sound really worth it?"

etc etc

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the angle you wanna start from.

Well I don't have access to an SSL big6 service schematic so maybe more like "where's the fairy dust in an SSL?" I'm assuming their marketing literature isn't BS and that they're using the same circuits nd components made famous in the 80s and 90s... which is easy to believe knowing what's in there now.

Edit:

Any thoughts on what to name the thread?

I'm a bit of a PT Barnum when it comes to thread naming, I want butts in seats. Your good taste might steer you to something better than what I'd reach for:

"SSL Big SiX really worth it?"

"Opinions on SSL Big SiX?"

"Breaking down the SSL BiG SiX"

"Is the SSL Sound really worth it?"

etc etc

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the angle you wanna start from.

Well I don't have access to an SSL big6 service schematic so maybe more like "where's the fairy dust in an SSL?" I'm assuming their marketing literature isn't BS and that they're using the same circuits nd components made famous in the 80s and 90s... which is easy to believe knowing what's in there now.

https://imgur.com/mmV3qTx

So I mentioned I was looking at the Model 12 online and got some responses…

“ If you are self recording the big bright level meters in the Zoom will save you every time, without those big wonderful meters you will be throwing out half your sessions from too low or too high levels....or you will be squashing everything with compression. I have never had an overload on my recording sessions of live music on all 8 tracks and 24 channels of sub-mixing to the Zoom.”

And…

“ Tascam is notorius for making confusing interfaces on their mixers. A great example of that is the DP series. There's a lot of weird quirks to them you'll only know if you learn them from someone experienced in using the things. As per the record+play "issue", every single portable recorder/mixer I've seen in the wild works this way, even the Model 12. When you press record, you're arming the thing to record. This is something that's standard behavior also on DAW and tape recorders. There are several issues associated with recording straight away when pressing record that date back from analog recordings, which is why it is done that way.”

So I mentioned I was looking at the Model 12 online and got some responses…

“ If you are self recording the big bright level meters in the Zoom will save you every time, without those big wonderful meters you will be throwing out half your sessions from too low or too high levels....or you will be squashing everything with compression. I have never had an overload on my recording sessions of live music on all 8 tracks and 24 channels of sub-mixing to the Zoom.”

And…

“ Tascam is notorius for making confusing interfaces on their mixers. A great example of that is the DP series. There's a lot of weird quirks to them you'll only know if you learn them from someone experienced in using the things. As per the record+play "issue", every single portable recorder/mixer I've seen in the wild works this way, even the Model 12. When you press record, you're arming the thing to record. This is something that's standard behavior also on DAW and tape recorders. There are several issues associated with recording straight away when pressing record that date back from analog recordings, which is why it is done that way.”

Great, but it doesn't sound like either of these strangers owns, nor has used, a Model12, specifically. And neither have Jim & I, for that matter. Maybe it's just time to find a retailer with a generous return policy and pull the trigger on one of the many good options out there? You're in The City, right? Does B&H ever put any of their pro audio stuff on the show floor for people to play with?

As far as the comments about standby mode, my understanding (from watching videos and reading forums) is that each channel strip has its own REC button which puts it into “standby” when clicked. So you arm each channel, then you hit the “main” REC button on the transport controls to start recording. That doesn’t appear especially difficult to me.

Also the levels are shown on the screen rather than having an individual meter in each channel like the Zoom L12 has. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad but was wondering if anyone else can speak to that. I don’t have any personal experience to compare it against 🤷🏻‍♂️

You may be right in that finding a retailer that has one out on the shop floor to play with might be worth doing…

Also the levels are shown on the screen rather than having an individual meter in each channel like the Zoom L12 has. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad but was wondering if anyone else can speak to that. I don’t have any personal experience to compare it against 🤷🏻‍♂️

Having an LED per-channel to indicate overload is great, and a whole column of LEDs per channel is better still. Having to do all your metering separate screen is less desirable than having dedicated old fashioned LEDs light up on each channel -- you can see LEDs no matter how dark it is or how blind you are -- so the Zoom wins in this regard. But not having a full compliment of EQ knobs per channel strip sucks -- regardless of any menu-based EQ options, not having dedicated knobs per channel is a major PITA, big win for Model12 on that point.

Having an LED per-channel to indicate overload is great, and a whole column of LEDs per channel is better still. Having to do all your metering separate screen is less desirable than having dedicated old fashioned LEDs light up on each channel -- you can see LEDs no matter how dark it is or how blind you are -- so the Zoom wins in this regard. But not having a full compliment of EQ knobs per channel strip sucks -- regardless of any menu-based EQ options, not having dedicated knobs per channel is a major PITA, big win for Model12 on that point.

A lot to unpack there but one thing I need with more than 8 channels is a meter bridge or something like it. An overload light? I would just as soon use the DAW and my ears.

As for dedicated knobs? I don't care for tracking. But menu diving to mix is no fun. I don't think zoom expects anyone will print and release their monitor mix. The zoom is loaded with sub mix capabilities and headphone amps. It's for rock bands. Its impressive but I dont think it's meant to do the same jobs in the same way as the tascam and SSL offerings. I'm actually sorry I brought it up now. Its fir a different market sector. It looks like a really good product as a standalone recorder that can put 96k multitrack audio on an SD card but it's not a mixer in the live mixing sense. I would take a mediocre analog desk over like a Yamaha 02r any day just because I can respond to the music faster.

Having an LED per-channel to indicate overload is great, and a whole column of LEDs per channel is better still. Having to do all your metering separate screen is less desirable than having dedicated old fashioned LEDs light up on each channel -- you can see LEDs no matter how dark it is or how blind you are -- so the Zoom wins in this regard. But not having a full compliment of EQ knobs per channel strip sucks -- regardless of any menu-based EQ options, not having dedicated knobs per channel is a major PITA, big win for Model12 on that point.

A lot to unpack there but one thing I need with more than 8 channels is a meter bridge or something like it. An overload light? I would just as soon use the DAW and my ears.

Do you feel the little 5-LED mini meters on your Mackie are of any value? Or are those useless to you too? A meter bridge add-on, in the $600 mixerface market segment would be a like putting a hand-stitched Rolls Royce grade interior in a Honda Accord, no?

As for dedicated knobs? I don't care for tracking. But menu diving to mix is no fun.

I'm talking about Ajaik hearing 3 or 4 pieces of gear together for the first time, and needing to dial in a bit of a treble boost or mid cut to make things fit while they're jamming away... well before the idea of tracking or mixing even comes into play, just something to support the joy of playing with all those toys together at the same time.

The 5 LEDs are tolerable. I kinda want those on the desk for mic/line gain staging although a clip light for the preamp will do. Then I prefer to gave a meter bridge with 10 stage LEDs per channel and needle meters for my busses but I can live with needle VUs for the master. This isn't that important for tracking but in order to do anything with the mixer such as say mix with it? It's a big help to have reasonable metering on every channel and bus. For just input gain staging you really want the metering to be as good as a standalone interface in the same price range as your mixer and eith the tascam the bar isn't set that high in that sub 1k range.

The 5 LEDs are tolerable. I kinda want those on the desk for mic/line gain staging although a clip light for the preamp will do.

The meters on the 1640i are hardwired to show pre-fader levels only, thus my earlier comment that an overload led could suffice. All signals to its FW outs are pre-fader, so that arrangement makes sense. I hadn't considered that these newer mixerfaces can display (and even send!) both pre and post-fader levels... fancy!

Fancy but needed