Super sonic and deluxe reverb

I saw a 67 for 2300 but i didnt look into the specs because it almost was 3 times by budget

66 is the last true JMI year, then there's a bad spell until Arbiter buys the company in 72.... a 67 is probably a VSEL version which is not a bad little ac30 though not very desireable and not as good as most JMIs, but it could also be an early example of the dreaded birch stolec, the first PCB AC30, super unreliable amps.... hence the low price, not a good model. Generally the vintage ac30 rule is that you want a JMI or an Arbiter.... VSELs are rare and they are supposedly late period JMIs built under new management but only the owners know for sure. Birch Stolecs are the worst ones followed by the various Rose Morris versions from the 80s. The Korg reissue built udner contract by Marshall sounds pretty good and is the best PCB version. The custom classics and customs or whatever shit SUCK like a rose morris, but not as much as a Stolec. The Heritages sound good but aren't true turret, its a PCB turret hybrid amp. They go down a lot supposedly. The current handwireds like mine are great although very modernized. They sound great in their own way though and come with lots of great features. Then tehre's the new '60 style reissues that just came out that look really well made and vintage accurate to their era.

would you say the arbiters are better quality then the vsel's then

I'm not sure, I've never played or looked through a vsel, you rarely see them becaue vox sound equipment limited only survived for a year or so and the production numbers were low to boot.. you can tell a vsel by its plastic corner protectors, silkscreened grey faceplate with no engraving and square black vox logo like the thomas organ US market SS amps of the 60s. What I do know for certain is that they're handwired on leftover JMI chassis and terminal strips mounted in later JMI type Baltic birch ply cabs and come with alnicos, silverbells like a alte JMI, but the caps and transformers are cheaper components than a late JMI (which was already using cheaper parts than they used to) and WAY cheaper than an earlier JMI with mustard caps and woden or haddon transformers. The arbiters are better parts though maybe not as nice as the early copper panel JMIs. I have an arbiter. The build is sloppy, but so is the build on my 63 JMI. Otherwise its pretty ncie components though the transformers are smaller like a late JMI with Albion iron or the modern reissues. Also they dumped the tube rectifier so the amp is hella punchy like a marshall. Interestingly the 90s Korg RI has a JTM45 eissue transformer, a drake, pretty big like an early ac30 though doubtless not as robust. I am not a huge fan of drake's 45 transformer (they were marshall's supplier since about 68 or 69 but they never made original 45 transformers that I know of).

So what's better? Well, vsel ac30s are rare and not collectible and don't look right stock so they go for cheap and probably do a good job of being a vox whereas arbiters are the 70s brian may arena ac30 that formed the backbone of his wall of vox back then and have a cult following so though affordable are easier to sell because they look the part. They are reliable, well made, but have their own sound. They also come stock with greenbacks as alnicos were unavailable in the 70s. Brian may swapped his speakers out for old blue alnicos back then.... I find my arbiter to sound a bit marshally due to the stiffer response and marshally speakers. Its a great sounding amp but isn't creamy like an old one nor does it have the headroom of the 90s reissue. vsels and arbtiers are about the same price range. I personally like the arbiter but if you find a vsel, try it. I suspect it'll be closer to a U2 sound as thatguy's #1 ac30 is a very late JMI ac30 with albion transformers supposedly and the vsel will be in that ballpark just cutting even MORE corners than the last batches of JMI ones. The arbiter midified the power supply to make the amp cheaper to build but otherwise they made it about as good as mid-period JMI say a 65ish one.

but its apples and apples. You have to be a vox enthusiast like me to really get this into it. the biggest differences are in the cathode resistor that sets the median bias point for the power tubes and you can change that yourself in any ac30, even on a PCB its a simpe, reversible 1 part modification that changes the power amp flavor. The amps started out super hot and bold but spongey and also prone to 'flame out' and over the years lots of values have been used to make the amp safe with different ventilation schemes or to achieve different feels from the amp to suit the average buyer's expectations. Beatles fans, queen fans, jam fans and U2 fans all expect different things from an ac30 so they're are still fiddling with that value every time they come up with a new version of the good old ac30. I don't own 2 ac30 type amps with the same value cathode bypass and it is by far the most audible variable over all the other little voicing tweaks year to year.

EDIT:

if you've seen photos of the edge of U2's #1 ac30 you will be thinking 'vsel' because of the USA vox logo, but his tech added that when the UK gold logo disintegrated on tour, its really a last eyar JMI with the albim transformers, some cheap out components and silver bells (though one that blew has been replaced with an American alnico, an oxford, Utah or Jensen, I forget which). His AC30 is a weird one. A transitional one that's pretty hacked up. It may be modded a bit as well to do his sound. No one's talking in the U2 camp.

NECROPOSTING

if you've seen photos of the edge of U2's #1 ac30 you will be thinking 'vsel' because of the USA vox logo, but his tech added that when the UK gold logo disintegrated on tour

Correction: VSEL is UK. Edge's gold logo didn't "disintegrate" on tour, he bought his #1 already like that, which is a '64 JMI fitted into a VSEL single line 3-vent cabinet. This is corroborated in many articles. He also has one silver and one blue Celestion alnico. The "Jensen" reference is a casualty of Dallas' poor interviewing skills. This is also clear in countless photos you can find on the net.

if you say so, I'm not a U2 afficianado but I know some people who know Dallas and picked up some lore second hand... it may be innaccurate or poorly remembered.

Perhaps to add/correct, VSEL-era Vox AC-30's are an interesting bunch, as this was a transition period where the company was working through their stock of parts from the JMI era. I've seen 68/69 VSEL's with coveted Haddon transformers, WIMA tropyfol capacitors, and Celestion alnico "silver-bells". I'm not sure what is meant by the previous poster that JMI used "cheaper" parts towards the latter end of their period. JMI was known to interchange parts based on pricing and availability throughout their manufacturing history. For example, Wodens are seen in 62/63's as well as 66/67's. I'd say, if you do some research and pop the cover on any VSELs you come across, you can potentially end up with essentially a JMI spec AC-30 for about half the price.

I have a 62 with haddons, tis allover the place (transformer brand by year) actually, but the albions are mainly late period from all the ones I've personally been inside despite what 'vox the JMI years' says... as I said with VSELs YMMV though.... due to the randomness of transformer batches I wouldn't be surprised if vsel had a bit of everything in the surplus parts closet LOL... I just caution people because these days you may be buying sight unseen and you may not know what you're looking at. As far as I'm concerned, if I get a 60s vox I want WIMAs, not mustards. That's a 70s vox thing. I can't really hear a difference personally, the transformers make a bigger difference though subtle, but I really like having the tropyfol caps because they're just cool LOL

on wodens, there are a couple different kind of wodens too, there's a wax insulated batch for instance and then later they realized thatw as a bad idea in the AC30s poorly ventilated cabinet and the transformer switched spec LOL but a lot of guys claim the wax ones are the ebst sounding OT ever... got me. I like the haddons.... then again the one shootout my amp lsot was against albions. I thought I liked mine better but hey, other folks liked this mid 60s albion equipped one. YMMV

As you mentioned it just comes down to your preferences. No two AC-30's are alike in my opinion (even from the same year with same brand components). Edge supposedly owns more than 30 and never found one that sounded as sparkly as his #1 '64 with albions (and he owns several earlier 60's models), so he insists it gets top treatment (i.e. it's own 1st class seat on flights) and is available for every single show (well, before the last tour, since it's now been retired). I just thought the dogging of the VSELs was a bit too harsh and unfounded, especially for someone who has never seen or played one. Personally, I'd take a decently spec'd true JMI circuit VSEL which comes with standard GZ34 tube rectification over a solid state diode rectified Arbiter with greenbacks any day (yes, you're getting more of a Marshall rather than a Vox).

to be fair in thelast few years I sold my arbiter... did the caps and turned a profit... regarding VSELs I've certainly seen internal pics on the JMI group (we let VSELpeople in if they have a JMI too) and they're not too impressive. The early arbiters are tidier for sure... that doesn't mean all VSELs, but hey, a guy looking at new amps who doesn't know a lot? I caution them. The arbiters are pretty consistent and even the PCB ones are shockingly reliable.

as for tone, the edge is not my benchmark of vox tone personally :-) His does his thing really well and I was more into it back in the 90s but in my heart I'm a queen man. And for my eprsonal tonal needs I really just plug straight into the amp and turn up to taste. I also really like the vibe/trem channel. I particularly like splitting to 2 amps through a very slight delay with dry signal to my 62 and wet signal to the vibrato of the 90s korgmarshall RI to make some tube chorsing :-) So my uses are way different than many people. I even removed the factory rear top boost on my amp when some of the wiring went and never put it abck on ebcause I like the straight one gain stage brilliant channel... as far as vax amps, all of them are like Jaguars... maintenance whores, but the enater one is the ebtter your chances of maintaining it so my #1 thing is how clean the wiring looks inside, how easy it will be for me to service when it inevitably needs service because hey it will... doing my own work I like tidier wiring. JMIs vary but earlier is usually neater... still haven't seen a tidy VSEL and to eb fair I've enver had one open in person. There aren't many in the USA.

Stop flaming me already. If you have a VSEL I'm sorry I denigrated it. This is a 3 year old thread you revived...

I'm through being collegial with you and I'm tired of being goaded into an argument I don't want to argue.

I can handle a polite chat that evolves and goes interesting places, but this is just a broken record now.