jimmarchi1's forum posts 8022

try synth 1 and build it up with saws for all 3 oscilaltors (including the sub set for its highest octave) and at least 4 voices of unison detune plus some chorus... you could also add pulse width modulation to one or both of the oscillators via the LFO section

http://synth1.com/

shrug, so's mine, but it works on my machine.... try P8 instead

https://www.kvraudio.com/product/superwave_p8_by_superwave

if that won't work, maybe you should take it as a suggestion from God to use a more original synth sound for your purpose..... supersaws aren't teaching you much about synthesis since most of their unique qualities are directly built into the singular oscillator shape unless you build them with TONS of detuned voice stacking on a capable synth....

speaking of which did you download synth1? You could fire up 2 detuned saws and a saw sub osc in there with a little white noise and some PWM to fatten things, then use the built in chorus and crank up the voices int eh UNISON section (bottom elft) and turn up the detune knob until its ounds right.... in both amp and filter envelopes turn the attack all the way down and sustain all the way up with just enough release to avoid a click when you let go of the note because all those unison voices will turn that klick into a THUD.... but that might do ya for a supersaw

supersaw, see my above posts with freeware.... its a very specific sound that you can only get close to if you have lots of oscillators, easier just to go with something that has the roland supersaw waveform

but I think its doubling the part with something else in the song you referenced which is a good call since a solo supersaw lead is a cliché and though its making a comeback its most often used ironically

I forgot about this guy that sounds really jp8000ish and JUST does the supersaw and nothing else for no fuss generation of cheesy lead lines:

http://shop.cfa-sound.com/products/super-7-supersaw-vst/

http://www.keyboardmag.com/create-sounds/1256/return-of-the-super-saw/28933

here's the history of that 'anthemic' millennial supersaw lead sound as recounted by a guy who endured its birth like I did.... a great article with a killer sense of humor

http://www.ghostfact.com/jp-8000-supersaw/

I am still not clear which sound you mean

directly at 1:00 that riff is a supersaw rave lead type thing with LFO controlled vibrato at the end of the note (or maybe martin just turned it up on certain notes with the MOD wheel assigned to LFO control of pitch) but I think the bell like sound that's solo a few seconds later is playing under the rave lead doubling the notes in the exact same register giving it a little more forve and texture... then the annoying rave lead drops out and the bell-like sound is out front

tyrell has a sub as osc 3, fixed shape (sine probably)you can use to add texture, see my original post.... I think you are right that osc 2 is just continuously variable between square and saw? try square/pulse first for both then

reread my original post

are you talking about the 'bell-like' synth that sounds like its an additive synth or maybe FM? It doesn't sound overtly filtered but I clearly hear some detuned oscillators....

using tyrell you might get close mixing 2 or all 3 oscillators (3rd being sub) with some detuning within the oscillator fine tune on 2 as well as detuning using the master detune feature along wthmultiplying the vices to add more detuney goodness by layering more detuned oscillators on single notes (tyrell is a poly so you can really go nuts adding voices to single note parts).... I would leave the filter wide open (cutoff up, resonance down) at least to start and and try adding more metallicness adjusting the FM on oscillator 2, from there you will want to play with the RM (ring modulator) amount and try different sources for the RM (there are 2 drop down lists for the RM, top right) -- I would also look at the modulation sections at the end and see about adjusting parameters with note velocity data to add interest, though the original sound doesn't have thtat feature as far as I can hear, it would be cooler if it did so it morphed subtley as the part played... I would statt with triangles on osc 1 & 2 and see how that sounds...

I don't think that sound was made this way but I'll bet you can approximate it. To be honest it has all the hallmarks of a factory preset to my ear, but there are certain ubiquitous synth plugins I refuse to pay for because they are just overused in music right now.... for what some of them cost you can buy some decent hardware that's way more fun to play with like a used SE1 rackmounted mini moog clone with MIDI , but I digress.

or do you mean the sustaining PWM 'rave lead' type sound around that time, because tyrell can do that no problem, its a pretty typical dance music trope using 2 or more oscillators, generally pretty detuned saws in a mono patch with gobs of detuned unison voices, subtle filtering and wide open envelopes so it sustains....If I recall the sound is loosely based on a preset from the alpha juno but really shot to prominence in the 90s when roland released the JP8000 and 8080 analog modelling synths offering 'supersaw' mode, and ultra thick detuned saw mode that is really THE way to get the detuned PWM dance lead.... but the general idea predates the supersaw waveform of the late 90s and you can do it with other synths if you aren't ging to be nitpicky and if you try these freebies:

http://blog.wavosaur.com/5-free-vst-emulations-of-roland-jp-8000-supersaw/

as the original jp8000 was a DSP synth simulating analog the vst copies sound pretty good, especially P8

I come from a family of uppity musos, the last thing anyone wants to do is share music with eachother on a holiday and when old uncle henry won't shut up about his blue eyed soul band and all the bar gigs and weddings they've been playing we all leave the room en mass and head for the scotch.

nevertheless they are a standard and will let you hear things the way most professionals do when they resort to headphones... although in dance music there are nos tandards for anything, but as far as commercial studio productions go... anyway

can you go to a retail location and try anything on? If so, do it. See what feels good on your head, over your ears etc

liited resources? work on your songwriting.... a good song stands up with Spartan instrumentation and production... the song you referenced is nothing to write home about musically speaking as you pointed out.... its reliant on production values designed to appeal to a specific audience but if you change those elements and pitch it to a different audience I suspect it will fail to shine

there's at least 8 tracks of vocals, so not exactly.... you are going to have to breakdown and buy software or pirate it (shh, I never used the P word)

the first step is to write a song like this.... make a 2 track demo of just the main synth line and vocal to start, then sit back and do other thigns for a few weeks, come back and revise the melody,s tructure, lyrics before doing anything else

one you are commited to the song after due consideration you will want to move along with thigns and you might want to pay for software.... pretty much any piece of software with VST plugin support will do (I say VST because its the plugin format with the largest pool of quality freeware synths and processors to achieve this sort of thing)

and you will need to rent or purchase at least 1 decent vocal microphone and a good quality preamp and maybe a hardware compressor for some gentle peak limiting into your soundcard to record the vocal performance if you want THAT ssort of sound.... that is either a large diaphragm condenser or a high end broadcast dynamic microphone

yes

okay, first and foremost like most Asian pop music this track is compressed and limited beyond belief to sap all the dynamics out.... it been compressed during the tracking process, then individual mix elements got further compression and then groups of mix elements were compressed as bussesand there is additionally mix buss compression going on across the whole track and that's before some coke head mastering engineer crushed the rest of the dynamic across the stereo master with a maximizer and probably some multiband compression to boot... this is making the mix sound loud and full regardless of how little is actually playing.... its aprt of what we call 'the loudness wars' --- not my favorite sound, but the secret is not to smash everything in one go round.... layers of compression and limiting is a lot more 'transparent' in that they don't create pumping and breathing artifacts like really smashing just the mix buss for example with a compressor and brick wall limiting maximizer type of plugin set with a very low threshold and max compression ratio

so that's a big part of the overall sound and its a trend in music that's wrapping up right now (just like big hair and digital reverb in the 80s).... the other thing making it sound big as that when there are less instruments the background vocals (of which there are PILES OF DOUBLED AND HARMONY TRACKS in what I assume is the chorus section all auto-tuned just to the edge of full-on robot mode) get turned up in the mix a bit (although all the buss compression can just create the illusion of a fader automation as the compressor works less hard when isntruments drop out, but I suspect both)...

this song is VERY vocal heavy and tight vocal performances edited heavily and brought in and out constructively are the backbone of the track, otherwise the synth element is just roland 808/909 type percussion, a juno or oberheim-ish synth playing chords, a digital synth (maybe a dx7) doing a bell like lick sometimes, a drone synth bass probably with detuned saw oscilaltors of some sort and some filter swept white or pink noise used to transition between sections and fill space

immediately I hear a subtractive patch reminiscent of Roland's mid-80s digitally controlled analog synths with PWM and a non-resonant hi-pass filter after the resonant low pass section like the later Juno synths (alpha juno, juno106, mks50) and JD800.... these are pretty straightforward 'factory preset' type sounds across the board and should be easy to reproduce... I suspect the abss was created with a popular software instrument called Massive, but I am not listening loudly so I could be wrong.... hmmmmm

the vocal is very distracting to me, maybe if you can ask me specific questions with some time references to when specific sounds or musical ideas are introduced in the recording now that I gave it a general listen I can be of more assistance to you?

I am around now having knocked off work for the next 2 hours to eat/decompress....

do whatever you want dude... just trying to help

ask me a question and I'll give you a good, detailed answer with enough basic info for anyone at any stage of music creation... I don't know what you're doing unless you tell us, so please don't take offense if I suggest something that's obvious to you, I am not trying to be condescending, just thorough.

In this case your #1 concern is protecting your hearing.... I reiterate that I think open or semi-open is a good way to go on this score due to the reduced SPL at your ear drum thanks to the venting as well as for accuracy reasons due to proximity effect, etc. Personally I am an AKG fan when I use headphones for critical listening purposes, but lots of companies make very good open and semi open designs at a range of prices.

EDIT: I think you will find that wallet-friendly sennheisers are not as accurate as AKG, Beyer or AT models. In fact, I don't really like the expensive sennheiser designs, I think their drivers sound harsh for production purposes and they are rapidly fatiguing for me. YMMV though... maybe its just me not being used to their sound having enver worked anywhere that had them in the gear closets.

if you want another model recommendation, check out a pair of these:

http://equipboard.com/items/akg-k240

EDIT 2:

Also, the sony headphones mentioned in the equipboard article ARE THE STUDIO STANDARD. I have never worked in a commercial facility that didn't have at least 4 pairs of them in each studio, though they are typically found out in the live rooms for overdubs and not in the control room. Their less obvious drawbacks are being fairly uncomfortable on your head after 30 minutes and a real lack of sturdy build quality if you start dancing around while wearing them.... you see more broken Sonies (is that how you pluralize Sony?) than any other headphone, but then again you see more of these headphones in general LOL, but seriously, every last piece of them is easy to break and they fall of your head easily if you turn quickly and when something startles you while wearing them theya re going to fly off your ears and hit the floor and they will not be happy about it.

I recommend speakers, secondhand is fine as long as the seller assures you there are no invisible rips in the cone, glue separation or problems with the weeter assembly (and studio designs are typically quite durable, though some of my favorite studio speakers are a bit delicate like the tweeters in the original NS10 or the woofer cone material in 80s Tannoy nearfields that has a tendency to dry out and separate from the surround just from exposure to modern HVAC conditions but I am on a tangent)

all headphones are deceptive and hard on your hearing to varying degrees.... open and semi-open designs are the least colored in general, present a slightly more true stereo image and are easiest on your ear drums for extended listening... you cant back up from them, roll off axis from mix position or go in another room with the volume cranked.... if you can only afford headphones please bounce your stereo tracks to CD (or mp3 if you must, but god does mp3 suck a rat) often and take them to other playback systems for reference... maybe your car?

Lots of guys manage to learn their headphones and create music without much in the way of speakers butits mainly DJ oritented music (dance, hip hop etc) and I can't speak for their top end hearing, but I can tell you nothing gave me more ringing than DJing, not even playing in a loud rock band without earplugs

ah shnapp, I totally got sidetracked here and stopped working on my day job work. FUCK this is way more interested than grant writing.

and do other things... I always get a kick out of guys like Tim Simenon who also own and cook in resturants, probably because I went to cooking school and like to cook while blasting unfinished music

http://www.radio.cz/en/section/one-on-one/swapping-beats-for-meatballs-how-tim-bomb-the-bass-simenon-came-to-run-a-prague-eatery

he makes a good point in this article I have bookmarked about creating a recipe being a lot like recording your own music

I know I sound nuts, but I assure you all that when it comes to music I am not.

Stay away from anything bose for record production.

okay, no problem.... like I said, I am doing funding work right now that is equally time sensitive and detail oriented so multi-tasking is not a good idea (though with much of what I do outside of music I am making my living on auto-pilot while letting the creative side of my brain run wild, an eye on my laptop and another on the music machine, there are a handful of non-episodic tasks like this that require my full and continuous attention to complete effectively. The hum-drum work actually seems to go better for me when I do a little of this nd then a little of that... submit a bill, program a bassline, start a check release schedule, pick the kid up, etc) -- I will have to get back to you when I take a break, maybe in 2 hours and my apologies if you are no longer awake (I estimate it will be the wee small hours of the morning by then in India)

the introduction seems to come from the right direction and the chapter titles appear to address topics you will want to be thinking about

but I don't have anything like the amount of free time to read it and form an opinion

so just go for it nd give her a read, just remember there are NO RULES, just TOOLS -- don't bury your intuition, just hone it... this is a creative medium 1st and formost and your goal in gathering knowledge and experience is to better express yourself. I have a fairly analytical approach to making music, but it all starts with an idea, humming in the shower and that stage isn't analytical at all. I get inspired and feel compelled to make the time to develop an idea. I NEVER sit down and say 'today I plan to write a song'.... I've been there when I had a professional career (of sorts) and I got more garbage than gold. Attempting to meet business deadlines from record labels, publishrs and TV producers only worked out well for me when the ideas were already kickin'. Starting from scratch on a deadline produced some really uninspired stuff at best.

Like I said, some days I wake up with a song in my heart and I hum in the shower and hum to myself throughout my day. Some people make time to connect with instruments for inspiration, they fiddle around on the guitar until their subconscious produces a winning phrase and others screw with synths and samples until an interesting sound or group of sounds becomes an idea for a song... but the mechanics come after the big idea.

I am tied up with another stack of work today so I can't listen to the song you posted until lunch. Are you trying to ask me to give you an idea what sorts f isntruments were selected to play the parts and maybe to dissect the arrangement elements with you to help you understand how they work and why they appeal to you aesthetically?

I am off to the movies sir, I hope Lucian behaves

have you been tested for ADHD?

there's a lot of 'screwdriver' work at every stage that you need to learn about and find your own distinct style of accomplishing... from developed writing to polished mixing

documentary on synths? "Moog" about Bob Moog.... "the shape of things that beep" was okay and relatively informative

nuts and bolts music creation is not featured in a lot of films.... this is book turf

speakers

And probably have a lot lot lot...lot more knowledge and experience than me 😑 and I know that.

but tis ahrd to impart via the web, its a lot faster to show people some concepts by doing.... another reason I was not sure I could help you anymore is that your needs are diverse and in-depth and really getting beyond the scope of a forum post, especially as you are trying to tackle a number of music-related disciplines simultaneously -- and some of this stuff is just harnessing your creativity and there's more than 1 way to do that.... it just rarely involves being in a hurry

I'm not a professional anymore, I haven't made a penny from music in 10 years.

you are going to want to lay hands on some books at some point as the forum just cannot contain the in depth info you are seeking and in order to regurgitate some of it to you in the detail you desire I would have to revisit some text books myself to refresh my memory on specifics... if its not info that pertains to immediate creative pursuits or servicing my hardware isntruments I probably don't remember it

I thought you were saying they were worthless to you the way you wrote it. Which seemed crazy from a guy who works exclusively in his PC! you will want to play with the envelopes and filters to create ambient 'pad' sounds that swirl around.... looking at the classic waveforms the hardest sounding with the most harmonic content is the saw/ramp shape and the smoothest is the sine wave, though sines don't respond to filtering well as they lack ANY harmonic info to shape via filtering....mixing 2 oscilaltors of waveshapes, maybe sine or triangle with a harder sounding shape like saw will give you a good base for a mellow sound and you will want to play with the filter, filter envelope and amp envelope from there

but there are lots of other types of synthesesis apart from the oscillator - filter -envelope style subtractive synth, that's just the most common as its very easy tow rap one's head around programming

if there are ambient sounds you are trying to emulate and you psot an example I can probably tell you what general type of synth to try and give you some guidelines on how to get started creating it.... I tended to gravitate to overtly synthetic synth sounds, but I also play a lot of traditional instruments and have the ability to throw a mic up if I want soemthing NATURAL SOUNDING

then its time to check show times! Lucian loves slapsticky cartoons.... loves them!

our weather is finally clearing up too... my kid hates going out in the rain, even just going from the parking lot to the mall

your English is very good... I apologize... I am quite a bit cranky this week. I am rather tired trying to accomplish certain thigns at work before the winter government recess and in need of R&R which was supposed to be TODAY but instead its been a very hands-on dadding day. I'm probably feeling disrespected because my son ahs been disrespecting me for weeks now, finding his toddler defiance in spades and making my job as his dad, keeping him well nourished, intellectually stimulated and safe from bodily harm super difficult... it definitely makes me irritable towards the young being a dad.

by introducing you to synthesizers my goal was not to make you into Kraftwerk but just give you more tools to work with... even if you don't use them in your music you will have elarned a lot about sound from the various compinents (for starters EQ is just a complex series of interactive hi-pass, low-pass, peaking and shelving filters not unlike synth filters.... in fact VERY LIKE them electronically).

think it would interest a rambunctious 3 year old? I am thinking I might just take him to a matinee based on your recomendation

its a little wet for digging this week

I think I am going stir crazy only seeing my house and my office 6 out of 7 days a week....

that's why I got hot under the collar at all, he won't drop it... I was going to talk to him in a private chatroom Monday but he never responded.... I was tied up yesterday. The time difference between here and Asia means that if he wants to keep going with it he's got to leave me messages in his thread, sidetracking me and derailing his attempt to learn about music production. I'm just done. I regret being baited, this guy's tone even with music discussion is irritating to me. This is not a religious or even philosophical web site though we have our asides. So my apologies to OP, this was my point when I initially asked you to stop proseletyzing days ago. I am sure you are happy in your life and I am cozily settled into my own (other than having an unruly toddler tearing thru my house because its too cold and wet to play in the yard today.... ugh, but other than wanting better weather for my son (and my mental health) I am good here and apologize for losing it with you. But whatever you're selling I wasn't interested in the first place and when I asked you to recognize that you kept going. I regretted losing my temper in the 1st palce and really wish I ahd just eaten my hat to shut this down as it was inappropriate.

that said, on a non-related note I am tired of heling you with your musical endeavors as I feel you are not listening to the general thrust of ym advice ad you are just combing for a quick fix to get you where you want to go and are missing the fun in music creation and the lifelong chore of writing, arranging and producing your own songs. You are very young though.

I have repeatedly referred to my statements both musical and philosophical as "my point of view". Feel free to disagree and go about your life your own way, but if you solicit my opinion you'll get it.... you (and the rest of the web) now havesome of my views on both subjects you tabled and if you don't like them, discard them and carry on sir. I don't feel our association is profitable t either of us nor is it brightening my day.

apologies to boom for degrading our beloved forum by losing my cool for a few days.... I am conspicuously cranky as of late juggling a lot of responsibilities and my own creative pursuits / need for R&R in the form of a beer and a night away from the kid once in a while.... it can be trying being a widowed single dad. Some days you feel as if you have ceased to exist as a person in any meaningful way outside of the internet. I guess that's why kids evolved to be so damned cute....

my brain is mush today after a week of the 'why does my mix sound crappy?' kid -- people are so nutty

and god has my toddler become a tiny terrorist.... I am wishing I was at work just for the peace and quiet!

this is the last advice I am giving.... I think you received more free music advice here than I got in my entire 38 years of life....

no 2 synths are the same, even oens that have the same sound generation and parameter adjustments -- certain types of synthesis are better for different things.... there's also a big overlap in sampling and synthesis concerning envelope generators, filters etc.... basically any sampler with these subtractive synthesis elements can be made to do very synths sounds as well as treated samples if you know how to handle it and is a greay area.... then there's FM synthesis(and its cousins like phase distortion), but you are not ready for FM, its so weird it'll blow your head off.... but you would be surprised at how unsynthesized a lot of FM patches can sound... oh, and additive, additive is cool

doubt synthesis all you want, tis a powerfull tool to create sounds electronically and its possibly the broadest category of instrumentation as it can simulate various acoustic sounds in a hurry as well as create never before heard sounds... modern music is full of synth sounds that you don't think of as synths beause they have been around so long they are classic style sounds like the electric guitar snare drum

lerning how each synthesesis typ works will help you when mixing as you are shaping RAW SOUND and it will give you a good idea how to more effectively employ EQ and dynamics processing to control bandwidth and dynamic range as envelope generators and filtersfall into those 2 categories of processing...

if you want to make electronic music without any synthesizers, be my guest, its going damned well for you so far

but I think I am done here, if you know so much, DIY, dude.... whya re you asking MY opinion?

and I"ve read the bible, I probably own more translations than you including a catholic bible in latin which I practiced my latin on many times as a young man... you're a condescending little shit, maybe you oughta give genesis another read and play 'spot the 2 disparate versions of the flood story both of which are loosely lifted from the older Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh' -- just how many animals DID noah take on the Ark.... ad whoa ttended the Crucifixion or JC's birth, no 2 authors seem to agree what with the fact that there are probably no eye witness accounts in the bible and it is not a work of history. Its a lovely collection of fireside traditions (and a bunch of disputatious letters) and maybe it has some meaning and I'm offending God if he exists, but proof? it is not.... and if you don't need proof, that's good, that's the meaning of faith. I never asked you not to have faith, you asked me to change my beliefs on YOUR SAY SO. You also have no life experience. I have been married, widowed, I'm a father, I've travelled all of north amrica, much of Europe, survived trauma that's simpyly NOT YOUR BUSINESS etc etc. Apart from being well-educated and autodidactic I've seen things that have formed my views for decades and I'm entitled to my opinions without some 20 year old kid shoving their opinion down my throat on a nonrelated message board inbetween asking me for advice about his crappy music or soliciting compliments on his mediocre graphic design endeavors. If I am wrong I am entitled to be, I think if I didn't have that basic right from birth I have earned it thru sheer grueling life experience...

I am totally done with this thread and you... I have dumped way too much of my free time into this (wtching a Christian propaganda film was the kicker last night) and I am using the day off I engineered by working doubley hard yesterday to finally do some stuff for myself for a change.

was it improved by your eye dilation? should I go to the eye Dr 1st

wow. I'm out.

say what now?

oh, I get ya now -- I guess a lot of people are ostensibly musicians but don't really have a lot of studio experience outside someone's bedroom

dilated from the eye doctor, sure dude, I believe ya

usually they're stolen from backup multitrack reels. dat tapes or hard drives and distributed anonymously around the ent by unscrupulous types... at the moment a friend of my dad's who live sin Europe has a backup 24 track reel of a famous david bowie record that he managed to lay hands on and is trying to figure out a way to profit from it without getting in legal trouble.... shit happens all the time

other times artists with more of a tie to electronic music and the 12" dance remix scene put out isolated tracks and stems in order tog et creative reinterpretations back from fans free of charge