jimmarchi1's forum posts 8022

I really just referenced British mixers because the onyx was billed as being a more british sounding mackie than an 8 bus... it's not but the eq is a little closer to its british competitors.... all of these designs pretty much use the same couple of ICs for EQ and summing, in a way every budget desk is a descendant of the Trident 80b.... soundcraft got chewed out for lifting a lot of that circuitry for their more affordable desks pulling into the 80s and a lot of other small uk firms followed suit and that particular implementation of tl072 based eq with 2 sweepable mids with a fixed Q of about 1.5 got dubbed British EQ in everyone's marketing literature as we pulled into the 90s

To me 'british' sound is neve 80series eq modules and to someone else its SSL 4000g parametric eq... but mackie picked up on that idea with their 'perkins EQ' which was supposed to be closer to like a soundcraft. The 8 bus took real heat for its lousy EQ even though people atthe time lived the headroom, compact size etc.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned all this marketing talk but I felt like a lot of people my age would remember the original onyx ad campaigns...

That's all.

You know, afaik, you probably will need a decent stereo bus compressor or limiter to catch pesky overs so you dont have to run your faders in the low resolution range of their travel to avoid unpleasant distortion if your knob tweaking gets outta hand and you get some big spikes. On a budget you might want to look at daft punk's 90s gear although something like the dynamite is kinda pricey now and some if that stuff by alesis and behringer can be bettered these days without spending more

If I were you I would scoop up some halfway decent VCA compressors for insert use and then get something that you can just peak limit the master with, maybe an RNLA which is very popular for live techno for some reason or better in my book an ART dual limiter which is a really great design based on the old mxr 136 PWM limiter...

I really can't think of a company other than neve that has DC coupled their mixer circuits... unless it's neve 80 based like the wunder wunderbar which I assume is DC coupled. I dunno. It's very unusual in a mixer even though there are benefits theoretically.

Very few mixers are DC coupled anywhere in the circuit... some avoid excessive DC blocking caps in the signal path through good design but even really high end boards tend to be AC coupled throughout because audio signals are AC so it makes the most sense. If it were just an interface then it would be easier to do and that's why you see it as a feature for the outputs on like UA and MOTU interfaces. It'd be kinda goofy to do at the end of a long analog AC summing chain.... also, DC coupled analog level control is a lot more complicated to do than AC coupled...

I dont think I'm explaining well but if you want CV outs you don't want an interface that's an analog mixer. Separate interface and mixer is a better idea there

Edit: I'm pretty sure the neve 80 series is entirely DC coupled to as void blocking caps in the signal path as they also form filters and can cause undesirable phase shift.... I'm sure theres some other examples and I guarantee you they're all 6 figure pro studio desks

The Tascam is true 12-in/10-out... which may seem like overkill for your needs right now, but trust me, having a 12-in/10-out interface is better than a 4-in/out every day of the week.

I really feel like that's the best spec in this class as far as interface routing goes. The tascam mixers are getting good reviews for sound quality...

Studio One, is not necessarily huge within the synth music community here in 2022, but if you consider it more of a bonus than something you're paying for, there's no risk there.

I think you need to look at the fully digital studiolive desks for studio one to be worthwhile installing and trying out, with those you get control surface integration, but we're not talking about those. The only thing to worry about is drivers, but I think presonus has mac integration down now.... think how long ago the firepod and firestudio came out.

And moving to in-the-box for your mixing needs is out of the question? It's your skill and your ears that clients really want, right?

Not really. It's pretty much my gear and my positive attitude... also the box takes way longer and I can't offer a flat rate. I gotta go hourly in the box because 9 times out if 10 no matter what I quote will break down to slave labor hourly rates. I know with hardware I can get the thing like 95% in an hour.

Yes, but it will behave differently (think marshall plexi bright input) and you may want to experiment with the value if omitting the resistor... differently doesn't mean it will be inferior, some pickups really dont need the resistor and some prefer the cap and resistor in series. I like this arrangement for humbuckers but I usually fool around with values using alligator clips. None of my guitars gave the same arrangement and values. Fool around with it.

This guy explains it better than I do

One other thought in this class and style of mixer is the presonus studiolive range. You may want to check out the ar16c. Not sure about its summing but I've had good experiences with presonus class a preamps and their EQs... I still own a eureka and think it's better than the similarly priced focusrite platinum channel strips of it's time. Heck, I would take it over a focusrite green series. I would also guess that as an interface the presonus will be a bit better than the competition (at least in sound quality terms) as high quality, affordable interfaces are what presonus is known for.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SLAR16c--presonus-studiolive-ar16c-mixer-and-audio-interface-with-effects?mrkgadid=3280890811&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=livesound&lighting&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=92700046934980550&lid=92700046934980550&ds_s_kwgid=58700005283820786&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007215323&dsproductgroupid=427594062235&product_id=SLAR16c&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid=&device=m&network=g&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9007228&creative=226299461195&targetid=pla-427594062235&campaignid=953755110&awsearchcpc=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAieWOBhCYARIsANcOw0wQA6oPiQ1VDYBYp8nSGl5Y2Ewc7Ghouy9A7XY2nDYnxepQUPC57kUaAmKdEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

They're new to the mixer game but they definitely know how to make budget friendly analog gear and interfaces.

Oh jeez, I was reading fast and my brain only grok'ed "2600"! Yeah an Odyssey isn't that complicated.

The thing about the 2600 is its normalled in a minimoogish configuration so it's no harder to use than an odyssey on a basic level... just an extra oscillator to consider and the envelope followerwhich is a really specific thing for external sources. It only gets complicated when you want to use the patch cables. And even then... the 2600 was actually designed with colleges in mind.

But yeah I was talking odyssey. Killer learning synth. Everything spelled out clearly and the decision to use sliders makes the whole panel very visual and as a result educational. Simplicity itself.

That's a thing? My friend and I are experimenting with our comic via NFT but music? Hmmmm.

I doff my hat to the hardcores like Jim that are willing to put in the extra work to get that extra bit of magic. The sonic benefits are definitely there, but I... I just can't... The mixer magic I want is the magic of turning it on everyday and everything works without issue :)

Look, if I could swing a brand new desk that meets my standards then I would have an audient 8024 heritage edition... but even if I could justify spending new car prices the thing still wouldn't fit in the space I have. Theres nothing compact today with the sound quality and features of my topaz... so far so good. I think I'll be sending it for preventative maintenance in the next year though... maybe down to Tennessee so I can get some opamp and power supply upgrades too... squeeze that extra 10% outta her. I still kinda wish I had gotten a solo logic because they're modular and i coulda DIYed it, but they're just that extra bit bigger so i couldn't have fit 32 channels... but i digress. If I ever get the studio out of the house I will definite be looking at customizing out an audient if I have enough in the savings account.

On the zoom live tracks, I'm pretty sure they're a standalone multitrack SD card recorder... unlike a lot of their competitors you're not just recording your master bus in stereo. However it's entirely digital apart from the mic amps. I was looking at the big one with faders recently for location recording before the unicorn variant and I think the livetrack is geared more towards that live rock band market than say live techno... but it could definitely work for someone who wanted to stream a live performance in stereo but be able to dump 48 or 96k files onto their computer to remix later. I'm sure the internal mixing engine is adequate for that and may be a better sound than budget analog. Although those budget AD converters may be your weak link then... you're going to run into that in general at this price point when you want an all in one solution that's a mixer and interface.

If you're only in need of like 12 channels and just want a stereo mix and the ability to interface with your new mac all in your apartment? the live track seems like overkill in some ways

Again, the onyx is tolerable... it doesn't sound bad or good and the old series has a proven track record as an interface and as a workhorse. I see a lot of onyxes trading around and they're clearly just as reliable as similar british offerings of that era... and given a choice between say a soundcraft spirit and the onyx? The spirit ain't that much more special. In fact I wouldn't invest in a soundcraft made since the ghost era of any size at any price point over a comparable Mackie... I would be looking at A&H these days.... the old soundcraft lineage really ended with the delta series when I was a teenager. I would also want to audition the tascam. Maybe you could try one next to a Zed somewhere and see which one pleases you more and then consider if they're that much better than the lowly Mackie.

If you want something special at a reasonable price old is usually the way to go...

An aside since you live in NYC: I was considering selling my 16 into 8 into 2 soundcraft 400b monitor desk which is fully serviced and ready for another 40 years of music... but as great as it sounds compared to what you're looking at, it's not a computer interface, you would still need some converters when you get a new mac... and I couldn't let it out of the house for 3 figs... it's also not really small although much smaller than my current desk. But if you're interested in a serious mixer let me know because it's just sitting right now... I needed more channels and routing....

And on that note I also suggest you buy more channels and features than you need. If you think 12 channels and just a master bus with 2 echo sends will do it? Go bigger. With mixers you always outgrow that minimum requirement you had in mind within a year. You'll want spare channels, sub groups and more echo sends and returns in no time if you're enjoying the analog mixer experience.

I would either get the biggest onyx I could afford, at least 16 into 4 into 2... or step up to a real desk and dedicated interface and really enjoy my sound.

PS - Hate to rain on the parades of people suggesting ARP/ARP clones - I would NOT consider those synths easy to learn!

Thank you for complimenting my cleverness!

On the mackie 'neuteal' sound... like in the budget realm Crest was really neutral,not that crest was always budget but they leaned to value for dollar... to me Mackies always sound like they actually are missing something sonically? They dont add anything but you also get a little less back from your mix than went in. If you don't have another mixer next to it? No biggie. Definitely having had a bunch of these mixers around the crest my friend gave me showed it was a champ in the neutral camp. No color but robust sound, bolder dynamics for a compact mixer with an onboard PSU. Of course that was a monitor model versus the onyxes which are full fadermodels with proper busses and sends but there are fine crests out there if neutral is the goal. If you have space a crest century can be had for peanuts a lot of times and though an foh design it's a fine desk... they tend to be 24 channels and up with 8 busses.... anyway, I think the Crest guys have a new company where they make some similar mixers but better, I don't think the foxx roxx guy is with them but a lot if the guys who were there for the xrm rack mixers...

If you're in Europe look into the smaller DDA desks if you like a really neutral sound on a budget... they got absorbed by soundcraft during the soundcraft decline into prosumer gear but Dave Dearden went on to form Audient. So theres that!

I mean the Mackie is a good bit cheaper and some mixers I prefer are out of production and might need a bit of service to get going if priced well but you get what you pay for to some extent. If you need artisanal slots for your sourdough toast dont look at black and decker.

That was a whole 90s and on issue with mixers... they went over to ic based pres and started omitting the pad that would allow different value pots with 2 gain ranges... even if you bought a pretty big, fancy desk you might not get a o bvb d or a phase flip or maybe no high pass.... everybody was always shooting you something like unless you wanted to repurpose an foh desk or break the bank.

Regarding Mackie mixers, and all new mixers that compete against Mackie's various price points, I think it's fair to say that you should judge them by the standards you'd judge a toaster from the likes of Black & Decker or Cuisinart

Or should you look at a toaster oven?

Thanks man.

To your point about the preamps? I have an older one and they work better with a hot, modern condenser mic than anything else.... the subtle gain sweep in the first half of the pots is fine for like an audio technica 20 or 40 series or some 81s and if youhavelike a 57 on a snare or guitar cab with high spl whacking it then really the pot taper makes more sense. It's designed for something really specific. Home recording bands and project studios were their primary market. Should it be a smoother taper? Yeah. But i think they just went for pots that would cover what they assumed their average end user would want. A lot of guitar amp volumes have that exaggerated audio tape on their gain knob too... I think there were a lot of off spec pots out there going for cheap in those days. Tolerances are way tighter now.

I got a little busy.

Totally serviceable basic mixer, best eq of any mackie. Which means it's actually usable! Best mackie preamps too. Think allen and heath or 90s soundcraft rather than Crest whereas an older 8 bus or cr series are like cheaper crests to me. Usual solid mackie headroom but nothing worth hearing when pushed... the bigger you go the more comprehensive the feature set. They're all still woefully inadequate to actually mix a record with a full rock band or a lot if synths and drum machines in my opinion.

If you need to mix some signals and eq gently you could do worse. Which is a little sad really, but oh so true. Better options in a small rackable format would be the a&h mix wizard or crest xrm depending on if you like a mildly British color or no color at all. Before investing in an onyx make sure it's a great deal. If you can get like a mix wizard, zed, a pre-peavy crest, older soundcraft delta that's been serviced? Forget the onyx and get one of those.

I've not used the new tascams but they definitely offer better preamps on paper and if the eq is at all based on their 70s and 80s desks itll murder the mackie there too. It probably has a better power supply, although onvoard psu is only gonna be so good.

ADDITIONALLY

I also recommend the motu avb interfaces for a great mixer free solution to tracking multiple synths and such like you have... you can be multi tracking everything with a solid enough dsp based monitor mix going via its spiffy onboarding facilities... I love my mid format analog desks but i rarely bother recording through them. Why mix live like that? I have synths to tweak, right? I do have the option of doing an OTB mix later though.

I suggest you use your ears. A good way to start out is to get someone to play your guitar while you fiddle with the controls, 2 at a time to get the sense for their interaction. Volume is probably least interactive as it's probably a little class d amp at this size that imparts little to no tonal footprint.... spend time with it. You'll find the sound you want and a lot of other tones too.

A variety of high power amps there, mainly 60s and 70s designs like the aforementioned matamp or like recent qotsa you're looking at ampeg vt40s, boutique jcm800 circuits or vox ac30s in the case of van leeuwen all mixed with oddball little solid state amps at times... plenty of marshall superlead tones on some of those cuts... some fuzz pedals and wooly distortions driving the amps. An ampeg vt40 or v2 is a good starting point due to its unique midrange control, versatile bright and deep switched and generally valley vibe. I dont think anyone has ever regretted purchasing a single channel 800 either. Neil young on the other hand is an itty bitty tweed deluxe that if course is an oddball unit, not a schematically correct 5e3... while I believe the other guitarist is a vox ac50 guy... this can go on and on.

Or get a helix, kemper or axe fx. There was a time when you could get a lot of these amps for reasonable prices when channel switching was all the rage and rack systems were still popular in some circles but those days are through. As much as I prefer a raging tube amp the modeling route may be the most economical way to go and if you spend for the high end stuff it sounds really close now... of course it will never turn you a profit when you decide to sell. It's pretty much only valuable until the next generation device comes out.

but to your point, the price of a used workstation synth with hammer action keys and the cost of a new midi controller with comparable key action isn't always that huge... and every MIDI controller, short of that Kawai beast with the wooden keys, is essentially a disposable item that will be worth exactly $0 in 10 years, whereas even the cheapest Yamaha MOTIF or Korg workstation from 2002 still has some kind of reason to live in 2022.... but OP is looking at $250-ish price range... we're not talking about best way to spend $800-$1200.

That's my point... you have it. As to price point? There's a happy medium between cheap and affordable in the used market in the covid years. In 2019 I wouldn't have suggested this, but if you're willing to walk into a chain music store now there are smokin' deals.

I lament midi man's transformation into m audio. I ran my old midi man phat boy2 into the ground for 20 years man.

Not a criticism, but am I right in saying the Prologues don’t have a sequencer ?

Oh no. Of course not. Imagine an obx or CS80 affair with an additional high tech oscillator

The at2020usb is still my go to usb mic. Its served me well in the pandemic.

The Yeti pro is an even better option as it offers multiple patterns and an xlr connection for studio use.

I really like earthworks mics for like classical recordings, omni room mic arrangements or minimal drum mic setups like you might use when doing a jazz ensemble. They tend to be flat as a ruler and very clean sounding in a way that makes me think of measurement mics... although they have a real variety of designs and I've not tried them all. I would never choose an earthworks design for a vocal. I mean I guess I'll try anything but when I think earthworks for a podcast I'm thinking about putting a single mic up to record a couple people in 1 room rather than getting a big and dry broadcast spoken word sound with lots of presence and perfect intelligibility.

I've never tried Komplete control but the m-audio oxygen line has always had mediocre action and chintzy knobs/sliders. They pack a lot of features per dollar but aren't exactly high quality.

Personally for soundtrack work I tend to use 2 keyboards over traditional DIN midi cables, one with hammer action and one with wheels like an actual synth so I can be controlling samples and sending synth audio if I want... and sometimes a nanocontrol which helps with spitfire products.

Think about what you're trying to do before settling on 2 or 3 products designed just as controllers. Sometimes your money is better spent on an actual synth, digital stage piano or workstation that can do double duty plugged into your computer.

If it beats my mopho x4 I'll buy one, but that's a tall order! Sometimes I prefer DCOs, they're snappy!

Good call.

The 'Mr Fixit' kit actually came from Amazon. When I need bulk parts in OEM packaging I usually do Mouser over Digikey. Although neither stocks styroflex caps anymore... for esoteric hifi parts or tube stuff I typically do antique radio supply.

I'm withdrawing my original answer. For under 100 bucks I'm saying a tackle box full of 1% metal film resistors and panasonic polyester caps with a few components each of every common audio circuit value. You can really solve a lot if problems with a well organized box of resistors and caps.

Oh? I didn't mention this was a contest?

Well it is now, and you won.

Whoa there... if we're throwing guitar gear in here everyone will be changing their answers.

I built my own

My 4 favorite words.

Thanks, I'm unable to add this link to Tchad Blake, no link is accepted from Reverb or else...

Yeah... the new system needs to be ironed out. I love Michael and Giullio but I'm not thrilled with the gear submission changes. I understand why we're doing it, it has a lot to do with google, but it's a bummer at the moment.

Good catch, I added it here: https://equipboard.com/items/shure-level-loc-compressor

I'm more of a gates solid statesman or cbs audimax/volumax guy in that style but the level loc was a serious omission from equipboard.

Here's the little demo with 2 of the 47jrs... I set it up for EB with guitar solo, voice solo followed by a little mixed version which is what I sent to my clients so they could approve or deny the bridge I was asked to write for their tune...

https://soundcloud.com/james-marchione-1/warm47jr-demo-jimmy-by-jimmy-ann-paul-and-jim/s-AxevYDve9e2?si=0b3203d82898479d87eda52225119eaf&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

There are still some vendors dumping black ones at 199 via reverb and ebay but there may be shipping charges whereas my sweetwater buy was free shipping and they let me use a discount code I had earned as a loyalty reward. Even at 299 it's a solid all arounder and you'll be hard pressed to better it without jumping above the 500usd mark.... maybe a lauten or sE might keep up for features and sound quality in that price range. I'm planning to auditioning some of those multi patterns next. I find myself using a lot more LDCs again... kinda backing off the dynamics/ribbons on instruments. Now I just gotta find an affordable SDC I like better up close than the sm81 or c451 with good headroom or a pad. I like the oktava mc012 a lot but you have to buy an inline pad that goes between the body and interchangeable capsules and to engage it you have to pull the mic down, unscrew everything and then reposition it as close as possible... and the road NT5s (which are lovely overheads, really) don't even offer a pad or other capsules as far as I know... meh

Oh for a world where all tube km series microphones and spare capsules rained from the sky and all I had to do was put am air mattress out to prevent them breaking on my patio! And maybe build a PSU since that would be pretty dangerous if it fell from the stratosphere....

The difference would be in the bass. It's hard to describe but you know it when you hear it and you know it when its missing. It doesn't matter on a lot of sources. I'm not going to pretend a 47fet would be my first choice on voice or guitar for various reasons including the hyped bass but you can do worse too... the warm did pretty well in these roles though thanks to the more neutral low end and subtle 80hz filter option. It's not incredibly special but it sounds good and has a really smooth top end for a budget solid state transformerless design. In the famous fet47 role outside bass drum or on a bass though it might not fo the job. A better dirt cheap option would be the similarly voiced oktava mk-319 and the 319's fixed cardioid pattern would be perfect for a kick drum (a place I use it often since I won'tbe sad if it gets damaged), though I prefer figure 8 for bass cabinets and even stand up bass unless the room is acoustically hopeless. At this price point I don't own a multipattern that would be any better than the warm 47jr... though a few exist that may be contenders. For a several more bucks there are some real heavyweights though. You could definitely try the jr on electric or stand up bass and it might be right depending on the source... I can certainly imagine it kicking some butt on a solo cello for example. Anywhere you might try an AT4050 the 47jr is worth trying for a less modern, fizzy top end... the 40 series tends to have very open midrange as well whereas the 47jr is mid forward and extremely detailed in that register. While I will audition the 47jr on bass and kick for this band, I highly doubt if I use a condenser it won't be a 319 or 4047... maybe on bass, I really lile figure 8 condensers on bass.

I should also point out the 70s u47fet was fixed pattern cardioid, the addition of 2 more patterns is great!

I really think anyone in need of a multi pattern jack of all trades condenser should buy a pair of black 47jrs from sweetwater by x-mas before the price doubles again. At this price, even if you only use them occassionally they will still pay for themselves in a few recordings.

The 47jr punches way above its price point even at $300+... but! It's not a 47 fet. You trade the unnaturally fat bottom for multiple patterns. And the omni and 8 are really useful. Its wouldn't be my first choice for bass or kick but it's a strong contender on guitar and vocal so far.

Its suitably mid forward for a Neumann relation and lacks no top end but can't get harsh. It resists sibilance and pops really well when positioned well and even in figure 8 it can be angled to balance out the proximity effect very pleasantly which a lot of cheap mics fail at, maintaining that exaggerated boom at all useful angles. It also responds well to eq and compression both analog and in the box. For a vocal you'll want a good preamp... it was passable through a clarett octopre and pretty lush and through a pushed 1073. It liked my soundcraft 400b pres as well on but was a bit nasal with my lousy voice.... however on acoustic guitar I preferred the neutral motu preamps because I wanted something that would sit back for what I was doing because it felt like I was hearing my guitar and my room and not the gear. It was basically indistinguishable through the analog systems preamps in my inline sountracs desk. Maybe a bit more colored than the 838es preamp. It certainly didn't sound bad through the 'better' preamps on acoustic guitar... it really gets on with anything you use, it's just some combos are more flattering for some sources and patterns.

I'll be giving these guys a drum workout in january and will publish my review. I really think that for the money it's hard to beat this mic as a utility piece. Buy 2... or 4! It's not bad at anything. The high pass is unobtrusive, the pad works well if you need a pad between the capsule and internal active circuit and the polar patterns behave exactly as expected in a dual diaphragm LDC.

One flaw is that the xlr us finicky, not all cables lock neatly, including warm's own OEM cables by Gotham audio! You would think they would make their cables lock.... it seems to prefer switchcraft to neutrik jacks... on the other hand it's very consistent sonically unit to unit. All my 47jrs pair up fine though none are factory matched.

Will do. When they get here I'm probably going to do some acoustic guitar and voice demos for a friend and I'm planning to try using the 47jrs exclusively for that... and assuming we don't wind up in a fresh covid lockdown I'll try them out on some drums and guitar/bass canbs between now and xmas.

If you don't have to have a silver one, warm audio's 3 pattern transformerless large diaphragm fet condenser with their u47 capsule is 199usd right now. Might be ending today. While the lack of output transformer means it's not really a fet47, I had enough faith in warm based on their compressors to buy 4 for an upcoming session in DC at a place with a real lack of multi-pattern condenser options (are there ANY affordable studios left on the east coast with a comprehensive mic locker?). Will report back on sound quality shortly, but at this sale price theres not a lot of competition with this feature set....

@jimmarchi have you had any experience with the Korg SV-1/SV-2?

Thumbsup

I dont know which one it was but I played a borrowed korg digital ep a few times on stage that had the little glowing 12ax7 on it and I loved the sound and feel. It delivered a really nice wurli sound with some hair around it into the PA and the control set was minimal and easy. Hatlrd to get a bad sound. It excelled at wurli & hohner tones with a rhodes sized keyboard. I know steely Dan is the Rhodes and a phase90, but it's the least cool electric piano it's just got the larger keyboards and better action.... and I owned one. The korg had good fender sounds too though.

Maybe this is what the OP needs? I mean, a number of affordable dedicated keyboards tend to do the job better than an all in one... but you lose the ability of the big sample based devices to warp those stock sounds. If you're feeling creative I still stand by something like the fantom.

Those Doepfer controllers are the stuff of dreams, just like the Kawai beast. The Bentleys and Rolls of MIDI input. My keyboard chops will likely never get to the point where the A88 is justified, let alone the really boutique stuff -- but I admire your tastes, good sir.

I'm not that good either but the doepfer really has a lot to offer for my orchestra library that I barely make use of now.