pkennethk's forum posts 2051

I can't get over how many awesome discoveries you guys have made on this thread! I wish I could help you out by Identifying some more gear, but I'm terrible at it!

The only way I can help is by giving you guys this! - https://ibb.co/album/syJwSz

Thank you so much, Mr. Gomez!!!!

Actually, this finally-whole CODA article just reminded me that one of the signature pieces of gear from Homework has yet to be logged into EB for Daft Punk: The Mutronics Mutator. It was always cited as THE filter of the French Touch/Filter House sound... yet it's not in either of these setups... very curious.

It seems that way! I just found the full article and everything matches. Even the MidiMoog is specified!

Just when I thought EB didn't have any more to give to this effort, you go and impress the @#$% out of me. VERY NICE FIND!

3/29/21 Update

Good news, with Jim's spot of the Valley People Dyna-mite 440 and nailing down the MIDIMoog, we've solved all mysteries in Exhibit A!

Leading Candidates for remainder of Exhibit B:

Macintosh:

-- Too many models, need more source info

Behringer Parametric EQ:

-- PEQ305 (circa 1989/90)

-- PEQ2000 (circa 1994/95)

Yamaha Digital Delay

-- D1500 rack (circa 1984)

-- D5000 rack (circa 1994)

-- DDS-20M pedal (circa 1988)

-- DD-100 pedal (circa 1996?)

I think it might be time to enlist outside help from Gearspace or similar. Any ideas/suggestions welcome.

Yeah, but they’d have to port all those Logic sessions. It’s more likely that they finalized everything on an iMac before it was sent off for mixing, which suggests the 1999 model.

Ok, you've sold me. Rated and good to go!

I went ahead and submitted it under the pre-Summer 2000 one. I figure that they weren't stopping to buy a new computer mid-recording during the 1999-2000 time span.

Well they started on songs for the Discovery album as early as 1998, if Wikipedia and other questionable sources are to be believed... so Bangalter switched Macs at least once during the recording of that album's tracks either way.

They had real money coming in by then, dropping $1500 here and there to upgrade their Macs when they felt like it probably wasn't that big a deal.

I'm going to switch to the Macintosh for now.

It seems that Emagic MicroLogic had a copyright from 1992-1996 and that it was discontinued after 1998, so that should serve as a timeframe reference. Daft Punk switched to an iMac DV for Discovery after the Japanese article, by which point the common name was "Mac" instead of "Macintosh". But which DV? There's a historical breakdown of that line here for cross-referencing.

Given we're talking about 3 extremely similar iMac variants that all use the same architecture, and are only really separated by a 100mhz delta in CPU top-end, I think a single entry in the Equipboard database for "iMac DV" or "iMac DV 1999/2000" would be sufficiently specific. Others may feel differently.

The DVD-ROM drive was switched out for a CD-ROM drive in the 2000 one, but I suppose they're still basically the same computer.

All 3 could have run the contemporary version of Logic Audio sufficiently - there isn't a single thing you could do on one of them, sonically-speaking, that you couldn't have done with the other 2... the one with the extra 100mhz could probably run a few more plugins simultaneously before crapping out, but this is the kind of thing where the members themselves probably don't even remember which specific iMac DV it was.

The MDX-2000 vs. the 2100 had some real functionally differences, as we learned when we dug in here... but in this case, I think we're splitting hairs to try and distinguish between these 3 iMac DV variants. But I defer to Jim's call. If he won't bless it, I can respect that.

Re: the earlier Mac, it could have either been a late Motorola-based machine or an early PowerPC based machine, and that's a more substantive difference, as far as I'm aware. The timeline is also way more complicated.

I'm going to switch to the Macintosh for now.

It seems that Emagic MicroLogic had a copyright from 1992-1996 and that it was discontinued after 1998, so that should serve as a timeframe reference. Daft Punk switched to an iMac DV for Discovery after the Japanese article, by which point the common name was "Mac" instead of "Macintosh". But which DV? There's a historical breakdown of that line here for cross-referencing.

Given we're talking about 3 extremely similar iMac variants that all use the same architecture, and are only really separated by a 100mhz delta in CPU top-end, I think a single entry in the Equipboard database for "iMac DV" or "iMac DV 1999/2000" would be sufficiently specific. Others may feel differently.

That's the spirit, Mr. Holtz! :)

In those first two videos, I'm not sure their DJ sets involved any of their own equipment... could have been house gear or rented. I've combed through a number of the DJ set videos, and I've yet to see anything consistent... but I could be dead wrong. If anyone can ID any of the DJ gear though, that's still fair game as far as I'm concerned.

Re: the third video, I didn't know there were at least 6 different cameras on that Mayan Theater performance, that's great! So far, the shots of any rack gear are so angled that it's tough to ID anything, even the stuff that's already been named... but I bet someone can find something interesting in there. :)

I felt like the timeline a cobbled together earlier was probably about right....

"about right" meaning it's likely the 305 or that there is no way to know without more info?

How comfortable are we with submitting the PEQ-305 as the model in-question, based the above reasoning? AOK if we wanna keep pushing for some harder evidence.

Nevermind, here's a PEQ2000 user manual dated 1995... so the PEQ2000 is still in play as a possibility

Circling back to the Behringer Parametric EQ, here's the 1993/94 Behringer product catalog, in which the PEQ-305 is still the only parametric EQ in the lineup. This contains the language that suggests the 305 has been "improved" but that doesn't necessarily mean they changed the model #. Behringer was a young company running and gunning at that point... e.g. there was a "rev b" of the MDX-2000 that replaced an SSM chip with a daughterboard that cloned the SSM's role in the design... and both versions were sold as "MDX-2000".

How comfortable are we with submitting the PEQ-305 as the model in-question, based the above reasoning? AOK if we wanna keep pushing for some harder evidence.

also, at the time there weren't any other 3u analog rack synths I can think of.... that's a really limited niche at that point

I can't think of anything else pre-1995 that was 3 (4?) units high and analog, either.

https://equipboard.com/pros/daft-punk/studio-electronics-midi-moog

yup, orit might be a later one like mine, the se1, its a gray period as to when the change came....

yeah, SE had an interesting, meandering evolution on these... but this is correct enough to log without issue?

Do I have this one right?

https://imgur.com/iXZRew8

Ok, I think I have the "LA Audio Gate/Compressor" pegged. I had guessed the 4x4, because that model was apparently a big hit in its day (early 90s).

here's the 4x4 https://imgur.com/YZX5INm

and here's a screenshot a 1996 performance in Chicago https://imgur.com/9OvFJaK

Do we have a match?

welp, all yamaha rack effects of the era were jet black as far as I know so it would fit in with the wall of black on the right of that one photo with the roland sampler at the top that i mistook for a quadraverb while I was drinking beer the other day

Ha! There's also possibility the Yamaha was the ubiquitous SPX-90 multi-fx or a pedal... I think it's image ID or bust on the Yamaha delay stuff too...hmmmm

Leading Candidates/Guesses:

Macintosh:

-- Too many models, must find an image

Behringer Parametric EQ:

-- PEQ305 (circa 1989/90)

LA Audio Gate/Compressor

-- 4x4 Stereo Compressor & Gate (circa 1993)

Yamaha Digital Delay

-- D1500 rack (circa 1984)

-- D5000 rack (circa 1994)

-- DDS-20M pedal (circa 1988)

-- DD-100 pedal (circa 1996?)

Anyone have any insights/thoughts re: potential Yamaha candidates?

I've noticed it too. We wrap embeds in the forum with a "wrapper" that makes them look good across devices. Meaning, the embedded imgur, Tweet, etc looks good on mobile, tablet, desktop etc. But yeah, I am noticing it adds a huge margin above the embed. I'll look into it and get back to ya!

Thanks!

anyone with a computer in their studio when L1 and L2 hit used 'em, there's no question in my mind. it seems commonplace now, but man.... its not equipboard proof bu I would be shocked if they didn't use the L1 assuming they had a VST comaptible, fully audio capable version of logic by then.... maybe it was still directX plugins in windows then, its been a long time since I thought about those dark days...

DirectX... no.

Never speak of this again.

In latest versions of Safari and Chrome for OS X, I'm seeing any Imgur.com images I post to a thread display with a ton of space above them.

Is anyone else seeing things like this in their desktop browsers?

https://imgur.com/ywkedr1

Not a huge deal, but forums are more fun with an image every now and then.

And for everyone keeping score, we're down to the 4 hardest pieces on the list:

https://imgur.com/rJZJQ9t

XD The Equipboard watermark!

I had to open up PS to do that many cross-outs... then I figured, if PS was open, I might as well enjoy myself for a few mins. :)

And for everyone keeping score, we're down to the 4 hardest pieces on the list:

https://imgur.com/rJZJQ9t

Ill try and add that entry as soon as possible, but just out of interest, do we have a source as to whether or not they used MicroLogic 100% during the Homework era? Because I know I can provide a source for them using Logic for Discovery & Human After All

Oh that wasn't a command, I was just thinking out loud, sorry! I actually added it earlier today. I've read "sequenced on a Macintosh" in a number of different places over the years, when it comes to Homework, but given they also had an MMT-8 and other various sequencers at the time, I'm not sure any one method is absolute. I've read that they switch to a PC running (at least) the first Windows-compatible version of Logic Audio for the Discovery productions (I can track down that source if needed). So I'd see that as 2 different entries, one for the old MIDI-only setup w/ Micrologic for the mid-90s stuff and one for the very different Logic Audio (or whatever it was called when they finally released for Windows). I think it's important for people to realize Homework was made on a DAW that couldn't even play an .aiff file.

I poked around re: Waves Audio plugins in the Discovery era, couldn't find anything for or against, but Ultramaximizer L1 was on the market by then, and they'd switched to a computer/DAW capable of hosting it, so I wouldn't rule it out.

EDIT: on further inspection, the only place I'm finding the switch to "PC" mentioned right now is wikipedia... and no citation, so @#$% that. There's a more respectable source citing an iMac for Discovery, so shame on me for spreading what may be garbage info. iMac debuted in 1998, though, so that's definitely not the Mac used during the Homework era... Homework was likely a Power Mac that predated the good ol' 9600... but I've yet to crack into what Mac they might have had their hands on. Any leads?

Welcome to the thread, Mr. Gomez!

For anyone else reading along, Finley has been in my Spotify rotation for months. Zealousy slaps.

Me and some friends were recently actually talking about Daft Punk gear, and after seeing that DP used Logic during the recording of Discovery, we were theorizing that maybe they might have been early adopters of the Waves plugins (I.E. the C1, L1, Q10 etc etc) in addition to their other outboard gear?

For the recording of Discovery, I wouldn't doubt it. For Homework, it was Emagic MicroLogic, which was mostly likely still MIDI-only in that timeframe.

...which reminds me I need to add MicroLogic to the database so someone can add that to their profile.

Check out the comments in this posting from an hour ago:

https://equipboard.com/pros/robbie-chater/akai-s900-midi-digital-sampler

Maybe coincidence... but how amazing is that if it's not?

they could be a wall of 3630s for all we know!

Given what champions of the 3630 they were, I would be surprised if their live setup didn't have at least one.

unit on top of that rack with the green display is the Roland S-760 Sampler.

I have no idea what the other units below it are.

Thanks for the digging Jim! I'm coming to same conclusions through similar findings... that there likely wasn't a parametric eq model that predated the 305, the improvements mentioned in that one-sheet being mid-cycle changes that didn't change the product name. I'm also seeing that it was a decent performer, at least relative to later Behringer gear. I can't find anything on when the PEQ 2000 came out, but your theory that it hit the same time as the MDX 2000 is as good as any I've heard.

EDIT: also, it looks like there were at least 2 racks in those performance that predate the Alive 1997 tour:

https://64.media.tumblr.com/ef8e0c7cbfd395ba067291ff9b1882f2/dbefd2f0f8f5965a-c9/s500x750/6f75e0fbe9bfdff16152467008924e3b6639ad01.png

for all I know that parametric EQ is great though, I've seen them but I have no personal experience with them... its hard to want to plug that in at a studio that has cooler stuff and decent desk EQ available for the common tasks, it always seemed like a potential time suck to fiddle with a behringer.

If their primary "desks" were a Mackie MS-1202 and CR-1604, then that Behringer EQ might have been an improvement or at least a contrasting flavor... or maybe just a utility for vinyl sampling or live-only applications as you were speculating. Either way, I aim to get every item in Exhibit A and Exhibit B accounted for in the Equipboard database. I trust that nobody reading any part of Equipboard will misconstrue this quests as an endorsement of this old, low-end gear from anyone involved.

I was just trying to paraphrase the princess bride.

Ha! I totally missed it.... need... more... coffee....

ya got me guys... it was just a suspicion.... you can see better gear coming in is all, like that dynamite which is a thoroughly pro piece

it also occurs to me that guys who went out of their way to be anonymous may not be entirely forthcoming about everything... masked men aren't usually known for their honesty

It was the '90s, saying misleading things to the press re: production or outright-fabricating crazy lies to add to the mystery (and show off your rockstar-like distain for interviews in general) was SOP for more than a few "electronica" artists. So I agree you can't always assume what is being said re: methods in this era is entirely factual... but if what the artist says is generally consistent with what they're saying across multiple interviews, we should go with it until proven false.

I'm beginning to suspect that this stuff was what they took out live and that they went to a real studio after their initial demo recording.

Behringer as noisy utilities for live-only applications = entirely plausible

Pro studio after initial demos during Homework era = questionable?

https://www.mixonline.com/recording/daft-punk-372628

"When it comes to recording and mixing their music, Daft Punk utilizes a modest setup. “We never have gone to a big studio to do anything,” says de Homem-Christo. “We have a small Mackie 12-channel mixer, and everything is done there by bricolage.”

I'm beginning to suspect that this stuff was what they took out live and that they went to a real studio after their initial demo recording.

I wouldn't doubt that one bit.

guys, behringer should never make an EQ, never.... their graphics and knock off mackie mixer EQs are so hissy on boost, its not a good thing, there is no way this parametric should be disseminated to the masses

I'm now seeing discussions stating that when Behringer first hit the market, all the units were more or less handmade/assembled in Germany. Prices were only mid-tier relative to rest of market, not bargain-basement. Sellers on Reverb #1 #2 #3 claim their older units from late 80s/early 90s are genuine German-manufactured and not the crappy later units.

There is also talk of the early "red label" units being of respectable quality.

All of this is just internet hearsay at this point... AAAAND, I don't care how crap they were, this is for the good of the database! Other than your Valley People find, I don't think any of us would recommend any of the non-famous/non-classic items on Daft Punk's list.

that's the only behringer parametric I've ever seen, kenneth

Well apparently the PEQ 305 was a "New Improved Version", so that means there is another for potential research.

I've tried all my usual Google tricks, but no luck finding any mention of a parametric EQ model older than the PEQ-305. Behringer was founded in 1989, and info on those very first products is scarce.

What are the odds the product was always called the PEQ-305, and the improvements they mentioned were just an mid-cycle update/B-revision that didn't change the product name?

Also, Exhibit B lists a "Behringer Parametric EQ" that hasn't been logged yet. So far, the only EQ I can confirm they had on the market in this timeframe is the PEQ-305... workin' on it.

http://www.hifi-archiv.info/Behringer/Behringer%201993/BEH_93_94_17.JPG

Adding this 1993 retail partner 1-sheet I found today, purely for archival purposes, future gens and whatnot.

http://www.hifi-archiv.info/Behringer/Behringer%201993/BEH_93_94_12.JPG

https://imgur.com/FS5ng67

You've certainly earned a little celebrating, Mr. Holtz. Thanks again!

the patchbay appears to be an 80s tascam too if anyone wants to investigate that. I'm bushed. Good job guys.

This is all you, once you get itching to log something again.