pkennethk's forum posts 2051

Elektron is not a company that comes to mind when the topic is "easiest to use hardware"... but the Digitone does sound awesome. I'm sure it's easier to navigate an Elektron product that it is to fix some of the bugs on this site, it's all relative ;).

EDIT: what?! Elektron put individual outs on the keyboard version? That was the one thing really missing from the desktop module... want.

We even stayed on-topic for once.

Lol sorry dudes, been slammed working on the site, a mix of infrastructure stuff, new features, rethinking old ones...

Anyhow back to synths. You have given me so much to think about. I'll tell you what my two strongest contenders are at the moment:

Korg Minilogue XD...

This one's a bit out of left field, but Elektron Digitone Keys...

I'm a big Minilogue fan, though having played both versions side-by-side at the last in-person NAMM, the XD isn't just the original plus more stuff, it's got it's own sound... which is (I think) one of the reasons they're still selling/making the original (silver) one. So just keep that in mind. if you don't need the more intense oscillator/DSP stuff of the XD, save the cash and get the silver one... but both are great.

Re: Digitone keys... I didn't realize that they key'd version was just under $1000, that's great! I LOVE the sound engine in that thing. If you think you can hang with the (greatly improved) Yamaha DX-style FM programming, I say go for it... it's multitimbral and everything. I've been very tempted by the non-keyed version.

Giullio's really thinking this one over.

We even stayed on-topic for once.

All this talk of Dave's age, sheesh (not just here, but all the usual music sites).

Dave was a triathlete back in the day. I suspect he still takes great care of himself. Benefit of the doubt: he still has plenty of life left to live, he just wants more time to do other things. :)

I'm glad to hear Focusrite have been fairly hands-off. Seems like Dave & company found a best-possible scenario if it was time to sell.

Someone out there has to know which Yamaha Motif this is:

https://imgur.com/5A8FZP9

uhg... well there's one reason to go with the Korg 2600M.

Is the korg mini even available?

not yet

...but this is Equipboard, we use whatever FINNEAS, Kevin Parker, or John Frusciante are using.

(I kid. Hard to argue against any of the top 3 recommendations in that article)

alas the behringer is not springed :-(

uhg... well there's one reason to go with the Korg 2600M.

I wanna buy that ghetto 2600, closest I'm getting.... when I went to drop my prophet at bell tone synthworks they had an original for sale, lets just say I couldn't swing it and I was sad.... I was seriously debating clearing my savings for a fewminutes... it was a blue marvin

I'm tempted too. A colleague brought an original one into work years ago, and it's the most love-at-first-keypress I've ever been with a synth. Just wonderful. I'm a big spring reverb freak too.

#3

https://imgur.com/a/6EEwxmm

There's a Roland JU-06a in there up top, not sure why it's cut off when I refresh sometimes.

#2

https://imgur.com/a/uYDAh0w

.

If you can't stretch to the Prophet Rev 2, and it's a hard $1000 cap, and you favor non-vintage, subtractive synthesis & need some polyphony, here are 3 pairings:

#1

https://imgur.com/aUSbxYZ

I never get rid of monitors when I buy new ones and suggest that everyone should have a collection.

My closet is already full, Jim. Homes must be larger in Philly.

https://tenor.com/vVNQ.gif

Hello, been here for a little bit, but just decided to post. :)

Holy jeez! Where'd you come from!?! You startled me. :)

https://media.giphy.com/media/1wq8TPbLeRcUtEi49F/giphy.gif

but back to the point, I think a video is good but lets allow photo evidence too... its pretty impractical to compare same loud amps on video unless you happen to be filming in a studio with adequate microphones to really hear the things and the ability to turn them up where they shine.... but if I throw the schematics of those 2 amps up you're going to find they're basically the same amp

If we're talking about a supporting image that is a side-by-side annotated schematic comparison... you're speaking my love language right there.

I guess they were just hovering on the brink for a decade! its that robot guitar and firebird X, no guitarist would want that, certainly not a gibson man

Totally. People more attuned to the guitar market than me had been fretting (no puns intended) ever since the robo-tuners.

I find it to be interesting how gibson was going bankrupt so they got out of it and bought other companies, what an all american business strategies....

Have the acquired any companies since exiting Chapter 11?

KRK was acquired 2011, Gibson bankruptcy was 2018.

The V8s aren't terrible but I think they're pretty pricey, if you're paying for them then they're not much of a contender because at that price point there's lots of better options. If you're spending 600 bucks for used vers1s? go JBL or Adam.... the new one's I've not heard, they improved them supposedly, they look different and they cost almost a grand new for a pair if I recall, at that point there are WAY better powered options. You could buy 2 sets of better options for a grand to 1200 as far as I'm concerned.

edit: 8" woofers are probably going to blow out an untreated room even at low levels, they're good to have but they're not a sole monitoring solution.

I'm in no way recommending KRKs in this situation or any other, just adding a recent story of a positive KRK outcome to balance the blanket statement that KRKs are all hype.

Yamaha X KRK, and others. Hype!

having monitor uncertainty eh? neither, the HS series are okay but riding on the udneserved rep of another white coned speaker by yamaha and KRKs are all "hype" and responsble forsome of the worst sounding music for like a decade or more....

I purchased a pair of (earlier version) 6" KRK Rokits from a GC like a decade ago, based good reviews, and immediately returned them...so SO bad... like so bad I couldn't imagine the kind of music that would actually sound good on them... but I've got a friend with decades of band/record contract/production experience, not too dissimilar to Jim's CV, who was given a pair of the newest KRK V8s by a contact at Gibson, and they've converted him from a fellow KRK hater to a fan. I've heard these V8s at his space, and it was hard to believe I was hearing KRKs. This friend also recommends classic (old) passive Tannoys and a good amp as the ultimate in studio monitoring, FWIW. Anyway, perhaps Gibson's ownership has been a positive influence on KRK... anecdotally, their products seem to be improving dramatically as of late.

...doesn't mean KRKs are suddenly the best choice in a given situation, but I felt these strides were worth noting.

I know most of this was planned from the beginning... but still, I feel heard.

https://gph.is/g/ajm1Lvn

would it be possible to get a notification when someone I'm following posts a review?

I get a notification for every picture they post, why not gear reviews too?

Good idea, I'll make it so.

Thank you!

I'm hopeful this improves the number of comments and upvotes reviews get in their first 24 hours... therefore making people feel more rewarded for taking the time to write a thoughtful one, therefore writing more in the future, etc etc.

would it be possible to get a notification when someone I'm following posts a review?

I get a notification for every picture they post, why not gear reviews too?

Maybe its just that I really want polyphony or insanity :-)

Well, we're both leaning towards a DSI/Sequential poly, and gchiaren wants polyphony and prefers patch storage... so let's find out how much he's willing to spend for his next polysynth :)

its pretty dirty and it removes mix options, its a sound you commit to and know it will be very forward. Its not on a stand either, is it not played because its in a case or is it in a case because I don't want to play it?! What came first, the spam or the rat? also in 2 oscillator synths it doesn't have the discovery angle of my arps, the odyssey does bread and butter, although not THAT bass, but its a fun discovering strange new textures synth in a way the subphatty just isn't. Its a nice isntrument but its a bit boring, I'm sure the sub37 or subsequent are more versatile but probably not odyssey versatile....

I'm always impressed when I play with the Sub Phatty at synth shops... I once did a side-by-side with a Model D reissue and was shocked at how well it held it's own... I recommended the SP 25 to a friend as a first analog and they've been thrilled with it for years, recorded the #$%@ out of it... BUT what you described kinda sounds like one of the reasons my Little Phatty has been in it's box for the last decade: it has that often-imitated, never-duplicated Moog heft, but I never felt like I got back more than I put into it. You have the recipe in your head, you execute the recipe, it delivers with flying colors, but it's not a barrel of fun to explore with. I had high hopes that the much-improved interface on the SP 25, combined with its dirtier timbral inclinations would rectify these shortcomings... it sure seemed to in the times I've played it... but I've never had to live with one or make a full track with one.

I wonder how much of this preset-Moog perception is our own warped personal tastes from too many years of heavy-synthing?

there's one: ARP odyssey

immediate discovery of cool new sounds, huge tuning range, FM, ring mod, 2 noise sources etc etc.... and a real player's delight in full size keys, heck I even like my son's mini key reissue to play. I just always feel so freeform and experimental on an odyssey. Its inspirational. And it just sounds so good too. Everyone should have one..... almost anything can do great bass. I've got tons of bass machines for traditional sounds, but nothing that makes me feel as exxcited as tweaking the odyssey while playing.

Yeah, I think if one plays the Odyssey in a shop and likes what they cook up in the first 5 mins, they're going to like the next 5 years of stuff too. It's quality, and an especially-great recommendation when the topic is fun & easy interfaces. Also, the original Arp Odyssey has what I consider to be one of the most well-written and well-executed owner's manuals in all of MI.

I have a subphatty, I almost never play it. Its a beast though. The little phatty is cleaner but terrible interface... then you have the new ones like the subsequent and the little 25 key guy and they're in between. Honestly you could probably just get a minitaur if you just want bass.

Minitaur has the sound, but is a far cry from the WYSIWYG request. What is it about the Sub Phatty that keeps you from playing it?

If I were to steal an artist's setup I'm pretty obsessed with Amtrac's music, in terms of polyphonic keyboard synths he looks to have a Moog Little Phatty Stage II, Korg Minilogue, Sequential OB6. What are your thoughts on those?

Ha! You read my mind. Given your previous synths were all (very excellent) VA realizations of classic 80s subtractive poly synth architecture, I was leaning towards these 3:

1. A No-Compromises Analog Poly:

• Either the Sequential Circuits Prophet 6, OB6, or the new Prophet 5 re-release... Any of these 3 are going to give you chills after the first few patches, and represent a true step forward (sonically) from the VA-era flagship synths you had before. You will hear and feel a difference that I suspect you will love.

• Note: the Prophet 6 and OB6 have an admirable amount of character differences between them. If you lean more towards Rush, VH, Prince and those epic, brassy, slightly cold/edgy Oberheim sounds vs. the more neutral, gooey, enveloping, do-anything Prophet sound, the choice is clear, but best to extensively demo both before deciding.

• Any of the Prophet '08s Jim mentioned are also fantastic synths, and are better bang for the buck than the pricier stuff I just mentioned, as well as being bi-timbral... but sonically, the newer all-analog Sequential offerings just do it for me in a way the DCO-based '08 and digital/analog hybrid Prophet 12 never quite did. Regardless, if you want/need more than 6-note polyphony and need ability to play more than one patch at a time the '08 Rev2 is proven, solid, popular... great.

• Dark horse alternative: UDO Super 6 -- haven't played one yet, but I love the simple layout and the edgy-but-classic sounds I've heard the demos. Worth listening to a few demos.

• Budget alternative: Roland JU-06a. Great VA emulation of the Juno 60, super-easy layout and architecture, but handicapped by only having 4-note polyphony. Still $100/voice is pretty great.

2. A great (Moog) Bass:

• I know you want a poly primarily, but if you decide to get a dedicated bass synth...

• My top pick here is either the Moog Subsequent 25, or 37, or the older Sub Phatty 25. I know people are nuts for the newer semi-modular Moog stuff, but it took decades for us to get a truly great Moog with patch storage, and I don't think one should give that up so easily. If you want a good Model D style Moog without patch storage, save your money and get a Behringer clone.

• The earlier Little Phatty and it's derivatives are very far from the 1-knob-per-function goal you stated, and the newer Sub Phatty-era sound architecture is better at cranking out aggressive, less-sterilized sounds vs. earlier Little Phatty.

• The internet will scream Sub/Subsquent 37 > Sub Phatty/Subsequent 25 all day, but I prefer the form factor and less-overwhelming control panel of the cheaper 25 note version... this means a few more functions are hidden behind multi-function modes, but all the basics are right there on the front panel. Also, if it's good enough for Kaytranada, it's likely good enough for any of us.

• Dark horse alternative: Moog Matriarch. It's a big, expensive paraphonic semi-modular beast with no patch storage... but it's basically a huge analog pedal board with keys... Since it's not true polyphonic, I have it here in the bass category... but it oozes wonky, vibe-y, warbling analog tones for days if you want something a million miles away from your previous synths.

• Budget alternative: more Behringer clones: fake Sequential Pro One or fake SH 101. Both of these are going to lack some of the midrange heft that the aforementioned Moog clone brings to the table, but the Pro One can do wild, edgy, harsh modulated craziness in addition to the bread and butter bass and lead tones, while the SH clone gives you that Roland acid squelch along with arguably the easiest/cleanest 1-OSC control layout of all time.

3. A budget-priced analog fun-box to round it out:

• I've always been partial to the Korg Minilogue, the first (silver) one, but the newer XD has a broader digital/analog hybrid palette. You just get so much for your $500 outlay: 4-note analog polyphony, patch storage, a cool little OLED display... The bigger Korg Prologue had people excited when it hit, but (anecdotal data alert) I've seen a surprising # of people sell theirs after the excitement wore off.

• Any of the Korg MS-20 re-issues are great as well if you can live without patch storage and want to dip you feet in some basic semi-modular patching... doubles as a classic external analog filter too.

• Moog's Mother 32, DFAM, SubHarmonicon fall in this price category, but if you're only going to get one Moog, I recommend one that lets you dial in the perfect bass patch, then save that patch. Leave the wacky filler/filter freak-out sounds to Korg or some other boutique semi-modular offering.

• Dark horse alternative: Novation AFX station... I'm not a huge fan of the novation tone, but the AFX OS for the Bass Station II is my late-90's IDM dream come true.

This isn't my final ruling on anything, just trying to keep the ball rolling on this thread. Expect me to poke some holes in my own logic as this thread evolves.

Do you need the minimum 8 notes of polyphony that your old synths had, or are you looking to pick up both some mono and poly options?

EDIT: Also, I'm assuming we're talking self-contained products here (keyboards, desktop modules, etc), and not eurorack modules, correct?

EDIT: Also, also... how important is patch storage to you?

I hate to bring genre into this from the get-go, but if someone was asking the same re: a guitar or amp, knowing if they wanted to make metal or country would be key info.

Can you throw out some styles/genres or representative artists to help us whittle down the embarrassment of good synth options that are out there right now?

Love it.

Given the color, pitch/mod config, and the group of 4 sliders with 4 knobs directly above them on the left side, it looks like one of the Yamaha Motif keyboards from the '00s... but Yamaha made a lot of different Motifs between 2001 and today. If it IS a Motif, we've got our work cut out for us.

Ah yeah. It's a bit confusing but the star rating saves in real time, as soon as you click any star. No need to hit Post Review button!

ok, just re-tested. everything seems to be working as intended. I take back what I said about things still being off with the star ratings. thanks!

Is it still possible to give something a star rating without writing a review?

I tried to edit the star ratings on a few items that don't have written reviews, and I was not able to make the change without writing something in both fields.

Sometime last year, there was a bug impacting the star rating display when you were viewing your own Equipboard... I don't know if it was ever 100% crushed, as I still see some star ratings on my own EB that look a little off what I remember. Haven't had time to play with it though. Not shocked if this is related... but know you're not alone in anomalies like this.

No, there is no downside to that. I hope we continue to improve and grow on that front.

However, a question that I have is how can we be more useful beyond that. So if artist usage is one aspect of gear, what are others that Equipboard could do to make an interesting experience out of exploring gear.

I've been thinking about this for a bit...but I'm increasingly hesitant to chuck up lists of wants or suggestions in these types of threads because I'm already an inmate; I'll be here regardless of what features get added next, and (more importantly) I don't represent a very large/mainstream target customer demographic.

That said, getting back to the original question at the top of this thread re: gear photos: I've been looking at, and replying to, gear photos at a regular clip since you guys added that gear photos filter to the main page, and what I'd want next from this feature, speaking only for myself, is a means to get a better sense of what each member is doing with the stuff in the photo... but I don't want to see/read about it, I want to hear it. Why would I care to see someone's signal flow diagram or favorite settings if their tastes and/or musical output just isn't my thing?

Very often, I'll see a user review or photo, and I'll go to their profile to see if they've got a Soundcloud link, and if they've got one, I'll give their stuff a listen... and if I like it, I'll then navigate back to wherever I was and tell this person in the comments... people seem to like/appreciate that... but it's usually a 2-tab adventure for me to do all that.

What if there was a way for users to associate their favorite audio or video demo with a piece of tagged gear?

1. Login to EB > mainpage > Gear Photos
2. I see a photo with the kind of synth nerd, left field guitar, or gonzo thrash metal stuff that catches my interest. I click on the photo.
3. Photo is tagged, and underneath each image in the tagged list, just below that user's star rating for that item, I see a link or icon to the product demo that user has selected

Product demo could be either:

• a link to a certain spot in a Soundcloud track where that item gets used

• a link to a Youtube video demo they made OR someone else made

The point wouldn't be to make users record demo tracks or videos just for EB, wayyyy too labor intensive, the point is to get a sense of that individual user's tastes and preferred applications. There are so many pedals/synths/FX that can be used in radically different ways depending on style/genre/etc. A few years from now, when popular items have dozens and dozens of videos associated with them at the product page level, there will only be so many videos that can really be featured... but the most popular video for the Strymon Big Sky (for example) is probably going to be guitar-based... letting users associate their own favorite demo content for an item would allow users to showcase what THEY like about that product, and give a better sense of how they use or intend to use it.

The most popular demo for the Fender Strat, at the product page level, is probably going to lean towards blues rock, but someone here who plays funk exclusively, for example, should be able to link the Strat in their Equipboard to a demo that better reflects their own tastes.

I for one head to different places like forums, ecommerce stores, youtube videos, and others when considering a piece of gear because I don't think one single site has nailed all of it yet.

Have you guys given any thought to aggregating professional reviews from SoundonSound, TapeOp, GuitarPlayer, MusicRadar, SonicState etc? As of yesterday, you've got the retailer price aggregation up and running on the product pages (congrats!), is there any room on the product page experience for users to associate the pro reviews we all seek out when a new item drops? I know it can be a slippery slope in terms of what counts as pro/non-pro, but maybe sources could be restricted to a list of approved publishers and top-shelf influencers who do reasonably objective, pro-quality reviews?

When a hot new item nears release date, I Google "item name soundonsound", "item name review", "item name TapeOp", etc... could EB one day crowdsource centralizing that content per-product?

long term every piece of equipment on this site should have a demo, a list of famous users and if applicable some classic settings and applications like 1176 on a snare at 8:1 with attack and release at 10 and 2 or 9 and noon

this is in fact an impossible task, but that's probably what the goal should be

I love the idea of "classic settings" for simpler analog and 1-knob-per-function digital items... and maybe "classic patches" for digital and/or more complex patch-capable hardware?

While it's certainly not the worst-sounding synth I've ever used, the Least-Enjoyable-Rack-Mount Synth-to-Operate Award goes to the Yamaha FS1R.

right now I'm in a catch up phase with these guys who have over a years worth of stuff at an hour a week.... imagine that. As I catch up I'm going to address the drums fully with all this midi data.

I thought there were some interesting drum timbres in this latest Trash Godz drop, that's why I asked. Whatever you're hearing that you want to change/address in future releases, that's all you. ;)

My "done > perfect" comment is a mantra for myself, one that I am 120% guilty of not abiding by as of late. I didn't mean to imply that anything in this latest release needed to be perfected.

If you build in sound design you could spend your life doing these and die with some incomplete

Amen. Done > perfect any day of the week.

Sounds like a fun session, Jim. Thanks for giving us a listen.

What can you tell us about the drums/drum machine/drum samples?

The journey for most users starts with curiosity about artist gear (so the artist page and proof page), and then naturally flows to the product pages. I would say a good 60% spend time jumping from one pro they like to another. Around 20% start with a product in mind and go from there (though this is increasing as of late). The rest is a mix, like the gear guides, home page, etc.

Interesting. Is there any downside to the majority of users starting from artists they like, and eventually working down to products from there? The artist-product profiles are the most unique part of the site, I would say that's a (jargon alert!) competitive moat worth continued nurturing.