Opinions on Mackie Onyx mixers ?

And moving to in-the-box for your mixing needs is out of the question? It's your skill and your ears that clients really want, right?

Not really. It's pretty much my gear and my positive attitude... also the box takes way longer and I can't offer a flat rate. I gotta go hourly in the box because 9 times out if 10 no matter what I quote will break down to slave labor hourly rates. I know with hardware I can get the thing like 95% in an hour.

They're new to the mixer game but they definitely know how to make budget friendly analog gear and interfaces.

The Presonus brand has been doing mixers for more than a decade, and they've got a few folks whose console-shipping experience goes back a lot further than that... so I'm inclined to trust the quality. Looks like interface portion of AR16c is 18x4, which also bodes well. The packaged DAW, Studio One, is not necessarily huge within the synth music community here in 2022, but if you consider it more of a bonus than something you're paying for, there's no risk there.

And moving to in-the-box for your mixing needs is out of the question? It's your skill and your ears that clients really want, right?

Not really. It's pretty much my gear and my positive attitude... also the box takes way longer and I can't offer a flat rate. I gotta go hourly in the box because 9 times out if 10 no matter what I quote will break down to slave labor hourly rates. I know with hardware I can get the thing like 95% in an hour.

Well there you go. I can't argue with #s like that.

Studio One, is not necessarily huge within the synth music community here in 2022, but if you consider it more of a bonus than something you're paying for, there's no risk there.

I think you need to look at the fully digital studiolive desks for studio one to be worthwhile installing and trying out, with those you get control surface integration, but we're not talking about those. The only thing to worry about is drivers, but I think presonus has mac integration down now.... think how long ago the firepod and firestudio came out.

The Tascam is true 12-in/10-out... which may seem like overkill for your needs right now, but trust me, having a 12-in/10-out interface is better than a 4-in/out every day of the week.

I really feel like that's the best spec in this class as far as interface routing goes. The tascam mixers are getting good reviews for sound quality...

The Tascam is true 12-in/10-out... which may seem like overkill for your needs right now, but trust me, having a 12-in/10-out interface is better than a 4-in/out every day of the week.

I really feel like that's the best spec in this class as far as interface routing goes.

The Model 12 is the hottest of the hot new things in this segment, from what I'm seeing, and that Sweetwater popularity ranking seems justified, based on reviews/specs. It's the only one in its segment with DIN MIDI i/o too, which is always a nice touch. The only thing the Model 12 is missing is DC-coupled i/o so AJAIK could get extra fancy with their eurorack interfacing down the road... but no mixer in this class/price has DC coupled i/o. Our 4-bus Mackies don't have it either.

Very few mixers are DC coupled anywhere in the circuit... some avoid excessive DC blocking caps in the signal path through good design but even really high end boards tend to be AC coupled throughout because audio signals are AC so it makes the most sense. If it were just an interface then it would be easier to do and that's why you see it as a feature for the outputs on like UA and MOTU interfaces. It'd be kinda goofy to do at the end of a long analog AC summing chain.... also, DC coupled analog level control is a lot more complicated to do than AC coupled...

I dont think I'm explaining well but if you want CV outs you don't want an interface that's an analog mixer. Separate interface and mixer is a better idea there

Edit: I'm pretty sure the neve 80 series is entirely DC coupled to as void blocking caps in the signal path as they also form filters and can cause undesirable phase shift.... I'm sure theres some other examples and I guarantee you they're all 6 figure pro studio desks

I dont think I'm explaining well but if you want CV outs you don't want an interface that's an analog mixer. Separate interface and mixer is a better idea there

Well then I forgive Mackie for not giving me yet another feature on this thing :)

I really can't think of a company other than neve that has DC coupled their mixer circuits... unless it's neve 80 based like the wunder wunderbar which I assume is DC coupled. I dunno. It's very unusual in a mixer even though there are benefits theoretically.

You know, afaik, you probably will need a decent stereo bus compressor or limiter to catch pesky overs so you dont have to run your faders in the low resolution range of their travel to avoid unpleasant distortion if your knob tweaking gets outta hand and you get some big spikes. On a budget you might want to look at daft punk's 90s gear although something like the dynamite is kinda pricey now and some if that stuff by alesis and behringer can be bettered these days without spending more

If I were you I would scoop up some halfway decent VCA compressors for insert use and then get something that you can just peak limit the master with, maybe an RNLA which is very popular for live techno for some reason or better in my book an ART dual limiter which is a really great design based on the old mxr 136 PWM limiter...

On the zoom live tracks, I'm pretty sure they're a standalone multitrack SD card recorder... unlike a lot of their competitors you're not just recording your master bus in stereo. However it's entirely digital apart from the mic amps.

Yes, you're always recording multiple tracks which you can then import into a DAW if you want to, or use separately. And yes its mainly a digital mixer so def out of the running if analog EQ is important (should it be?). Unfortunately I don't know how good or bad digital EQ really is... 🤷🏾‍♂️

Although those budget AD converters may be your weak link then... you're going to run into that in general at this price point when you want an all in one solution that's a mixer and interface.

The fact that it is also an audio interface is a major selling point to me. Yes I have separate audio interfaces too but if I used them would that mean Id essentially be converting to and from digital twice ? That kinda feels like a negative to me...

If you're only in need of like 12 channels and just want a stereo mix and the ability to interface with your new mac all in your apartment? the live track seems like overkill in some ways

Maybe but Im assuming Ill learn some more, try more things, eventually need those extras perhaps.

Again, the onyx is tolerable... it doesn't sound bad or good and the old series has a proven track record as an interface and as a workhorse. I see a lot of onyxes trading around and they're clearly just as reliable as similar british offerings of that era... and given a choice between say a soundcraft spirit and the onyx?

Im not really familiar with the history here: are (were ?) British mixers something like a gold standard ? (You'd think someone originally from the UK should know this stuff ;-) I only know that's maybe a "thing" because Rupert Neve died last year and I saw articles about he and his work...

An aside since you live in NYC: I was considering selling my 16 into 8 into 2 soundcraft 400b monitor desk which is fully serviced and ready for another 40 years of music... but as great as it sounds compared to what you're looking at, it's not a computer interface, you would still need some converters when you get a new mac... and I couldn't let it out of the house for 3 figs... it's also not really small although much smaller than my current desk. But if you're interested in a serious mixer let me know because it's just sitting right now... I needed more channels and routing....

Looks amazing but it would probably need its own desk / stand and although I live in a loft space we seriously don't have the space for it.

And on that note I also suggest you buy more channels and features than you need. If you think 12 channels and just a master bus with 2 echo sends will do it? Go bigger. With mixers you always outgrow that minimum requirement you had in mind within a year. You'll want spare channels, sub groups and more echo sends and returns in no time if you're enjoying the analog mixer experience.

I would either get the biggest onyx I could afford, at least 16 into 4 into 2... or step up to a real desk and dedicated interface and really enjoy my sound.

Yeah I can see that is probably true like a lot of things in music! :-D

One other thought in this class and style of mixer is the presonus studiolive range. You may want to check out the ar16c.

First impressions:

• Hybrid design with mostly analog front-end incl analog EQ
• High quality pre-amps
• Record in 96kHz to SD without a DAW (not clear if it multi-tracks to SD as well ?)
• Only $100 more than the 12 channel ones Im already looking at
• Ability to hook up several "consumer" devices like a phone, iPad, etc
• Bluetooth connectivity

I really just referenced British mixers because the onyx was billed as being a more british sounding mackie than an 8 bus... it's not but the eq is a little closer to its british competitors.... all of these designs pretty much use the same couple of ICs for EQ and summing, in a way every budget desk is a descendant of the Trident 80b.... soundcraft got chewed out for lifting a lot of that circuitry for their more affordable desks pulling into the 80s and a lot of other small uk firms followed suit and that particular implementation of tl072 based eq with 2 sweepable mids with a fixed Q of about 1.5 got dubbed British EQ in everyone's marketing literature as we pulled into the 90s

To me 'british' sound is neve 80series eq modules and to someone else its SSL 4000g parametric eq... but mackie picked up on that idea with their 'perkins EQ' which was supposed to be closer to like a soundcraft. The 8 bus took real heat for its lousy EQ even though people atthe time lived the headroom, compact size etc.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned all this marketing talk but I felt like a lot of people my age would remember the original onyx ad campaigns...

That's all.

The packaged DAW, Studio One, is not necessarily huge within the synth music community here in 2022, but if you consider it more of a bonus than something you're paying for, there's no risk there.

Yeah, their DAW is not one that I see a lot of synth folks using so its a brand that's never been on my radar... and I didn't know they did mixers too.

I think you need to look at the fully digital studiolive desks for studio one to be worthwhile installing and trying out, with those you get control surface integration, but we're not talking about those. The only thing to worry about is drivers, but I think presonus has mac integration down now.... think how long ago the firepod and firestudio came out.

They support Apple's new native silicon which bodes well when I buy a new Mac later this year

The only thing the Model 12 is missing is DC-coupled i/o so AJAIK could get extra fancy with their eurorack interfacing down the road... but no mixer in this class/price has DC coupled i/o. Our 4-bus Mackies don't have it either.

That's interesting, I never really considered using CV outside a rack with any audio gear. And yes, I am getting more into modular gear these days. (Ive already built a Roland System 100m clone with 208hp of Behringer modules ;-) Though there are CV->MIDI modules that could be used here.

That's interesting, I never really considered using CV outside a rack with any audio gear.

It's a feature of the motu 828es that I really enjoy though I don't use it as much as I ought to. I really dont use my synths as much as I ought to lately.... so yeah

Looks like the StudioLive and the new Onyx’s can only multitrack over USB to a computer, not direct to the SD 😔

Looks like the StudioLive and the new Onyx’s can only multitrack over USB to a computer, not direct to the SD 😔

Can the new Onyxes really multitrack over USB either, though? I can't find where Mackie states the X by X simultaneous i/o spec for USB, and some reviews said it was only 4 x 4... but those aren't to be trusted.

I’m looking at the manual:

“ PreSonus® Capture™ 2.0 is a multitrack digital-audio recording application designed to make recording with StudioLive™ mixers quick and easy. With the look and feel of a digital multitrack hard-disk recorder, it is instantly familiar. It uses the same high-quality audio engine as PreSonus' groundbreaking Studio One® DAW, and its Session files can be opened directly in Studio One—no conversion or exporting required.

Capture 2 was designed exclusively for StudioLive-series mixers, allowing instant setup and recording directly from the mixer, with no configuration.”