pkennethk's forum posts 2051

what error message are you getting when you try to insert these edits?

Why the admins/developers of equipboard.com remove the "contributors" on the artists page?

I found a lot of Brazilian friends on equipboard.com because of this option, please go back to this option of contributors ...

many thanks

Ditto. +1 to this.

I stumbled across this just now, Khruangbin fans:

https://musikborsen.se/sortiment/stranginstrument/bas/fender-limited-edition-laura-lee-jazz-bass-rosewood-fingerboard-vintage-white/

I can't find any info or press releases from Fender, or anywhere else... seems like retailer might have jumped the gun.

An interesting development, given Lee famously plays (played?) an SX vintage jazz bass copy, and not an actual Fender.

Here's an Imgur incase the link gets taken down: https://imgur.com/a/rTSD7Ia

Good catch. Corrected.

Cast doesn't appear to be in the database yet. Someone will have to add.

Hypothesis #3: John actually IS manipulating the audio output of each guitar string with a dedicated MC-202

This one is the same scenario as #2, except the mystery converter box is outputting a separate line-level audio output per string, AND each MC-202 has been modified with an audio input just before the filter section -- this would, in theory, swap the oscillator sound of each MC-202 with the audio output of each string, that would then pass through the filter section of each MC-202 as it played back it's sequence, giving you a crazy envelope modulated filter effect per string, via whatever pre-programmed sequence is playing on each MC-202.

This is the intense level of complexity and modification it would take for what the journalist described to be entirely accurate***. This seems like the least-plausible of all the guesses, even though this kind of filter effect would be very on-brand for JF -- again, I refer back to the studio picture... the only plugs in these MC-202s are AC in, external sync in, and audio output.

#1 is the guess that makes the most sense to me.

Try it at home:

For this one, I'd recommend sticking to a single modulated filter, as in your other thread.

*** In the journalist's defense, you can see in the Vintage Guitar magazine interview that even direct quotes from John can sometimes gloss over key technical specifics.

Hypothesis #2: John is using his guitar modded with a hexaphonic pickup to trigger notes on each MC-202 via their pitch and gate control voltage (CV) inputs.

John is a confirmed owner and user of both the Roland GR-300 and GR-500 guitar synthesizers. Both GRs were sold as a package with dedicated guitar controllers that were essentially regular electric guitars (Yamaha and Ibanez models) modified with a hexaphonic (6 output) pickup to drive the otherwise-useless synth modules.

John apparently didn't vibe with the guitar controller that was sold with the GR-300, so he had one of his Jaguars modified with a hexaphonic pickup so that he could control the GR-300 more comfortably.

Per Vintage Guitar Magazine:

"I love Fender Jaguars. The guitar I’ve owned the longest is a red Jaguar from around ’61. It has a matching headstock. I also have an old white one I transformed into a GR-300 guitar synthesizer."

The GR-300 synth unit weights like 10 lbs on it's own... I doubt he put the actual synth brain into the tiny body of a Jaguar... it's far more likely that he had the hexaphonic pickup and serial output jack from the original controller guitar (or a functional equivalent) mounted into his white Jaguar.

So guess #2 is based on the fact that he owns a guitar modified to output a separate instrument-level signal per-string -- and given such a thing exists, there is likely some device out there, something made by Roland long ago, or something he had custom-built, that could convert those 6 outputs into 6 sets of pitch and gate CV outputs that would be compatible with the CV inputs of each MC-202.... We're talking about a crazy-looking box with a serial plug input for the hexaphonic pickup in the guitar, that has 12 (TWELVE!) output plugs for all six MC-202s input pairs.

Even though it not beyond the realm of possibility that John has such a converter mystery box... as to what kind of results he would get controlling MC-202 in this way, I imagine it would be less than you would hope for. Most of the big synth makers in the US and Japan attempted guitar synths in the late 70s and early 80s, but they mostly died out because nobody could get them to track each guitar string as tightly and responsively as you would hope, especially for chords and fast/technical phrases. But certainly you could do some interesting stuff with this tech if you're open to unexpected and sometimes-goofy results.

That said, if I heard synth sounds on a Frusciante album that sounded like they were being controlled by a guitar, I'd be inclined to believe that I'm just hearing his GR-300 or GR-500... at least that would be the far simpler explanation for what I was hearing, vs. multiple MC-202s being controlled by a Jaguar via some mystery signal converter.

Also the MC-202 quantizes incoming CV signals, which makes controlling them with an external source less-than ideal. There are mods that can be performed to overcome this issue, but John would have had to do this mod 6 times over... also, none of the MC-202s in this studio shot have anything plugged into their CV inputs... hmmmm.

Try it at home:

As for how to control a synth with a guitar in a cost-effective way in 2025, I don't know of anything that is amazing, but I'm no expert. I know a guitar-playing friend of mine was really impressed with EHX's guitar-to-synth breakthroughs when they first hit the market... haven't tried them myself.

Hypothesis #1: Each MC-202 represents a single guitar string, but they are not controlled by a guitar, nor do they process/manipulate incoming guitar sounds in any way.

Just so everyone reading is clear, the MC-202, like many analog synths, is monophonic, meaning it can't sound out 2 notes at the same time.

So guess #1 as to why he went this route: John is a composer who thinks like a guitarist.

On a keyboard, you only have a single option for each of the 12 notes within a given octave, but on guitar you often have 2 or even 3 different places to play the exact same note, each one having a different tone, based on the string you choose to play it on: e.g. A2 on the low E vs A2 on the open A. You can't replicate this aspect of composing on guitar using a conventional 6-voice polysynth (such as a Jupiter 6 or Juno 106 from the MC-202's same era), but you COULD do this if you had 6 completely separate monophonic synth voices all being sequenced with their own sequencer tracks.

So, perhaps John didn't want to give up that aspect of composing on guitar, and treats each MC-202 AS IF it were a string on a guitar, but he does not literally "manipulate a single guitar string per machine".

Try it at home:

You could easily replicate this approach in most any DAW by putting 6 separate instances of the same synth plugin on 6 separate midi tracks and sequencing each one as if it were a string in a guitar piece. The synth that represents low E would be set to a thick, dark tone, the synth representing A would get slightly thinner and brighter tone setting and so on.

The voice engine of the MC-202 is very nearly identical to the famous SH-101, which is why there aren't many (if any) MC-202 emulation plugins out there, the MC-202 is effectively an SH-101 with a more sophisticated sequencer instead of physical keys (more sophisticated than an SH-101, but still crude compared to a modern DAW). So any synth plugin that can do a decent SH-101 impersonation would work for you. TAL Bassline 101 is my personal favorite for SH-101 emulation, but there are plenty of free SH-101 emulations to try first -- and most every DAW comes with a bundled subtractive/analogy-style synth that can come close to these sounds.

The description of how Frusciante uses his MC-202s is NOT a direct quote, it's a journalist's attempt to explain what is going on. As a big fan & owner of 80's Roland gear, I can tell you that this description either A) leaves out a ton of other pieces of gear that would be needed to make anything like this happen or B) the author took some poetic license and just wanted to describe something that sounded cool, even if it's misleading:

"Frusciante actually has six MC-202s, which he uses in various combinations to translate guitar parts into synthesized parts. With multiple machines, he can manipulate a single guitar string per machine, and then endlessly refine each string’s sound."

OK, hypotheis time...

OK, I took a listen to the song, as well as Dani California.

For the RHCP song, it's supposedly an envelope follower controlling the cutoff of a lowpass filter on a modular synth rig.

It's a cleaner sound than on the Ratuig song, which also has some fast L/R panning going on, as well as something dirtying up and probably also compressing the guitar tone (it's definitely still a guitar being processed, that's not the sound of synth oscillators, I'm confident those are still real strings we're hearing)... but he's likely using a very similar envelope follower + lowpass filter setup to achieve the aspect of the tone that seems to interest you.

As to what pedal-based envelope filters could achieve the same effect, that's not my area of expertise... but I bet there are a few different options on the market that would get you there. Maybe have a look at what he uses to play Dani California live? I doubt he's dragging a modular synth on stage to repro the tone.

That's a tough one. It's in an Fulltone-esq enclosure, but it doesn't match up with any of their products exactly.

Why not ask Jacob directly via a comment on that post? Or, failing that, a DM?

I don't think 25k followers makes someone too famous to answer a simple and honest question from the general public... but I'm certainly no expert.

If the pedal is a re-housed or DIY job (very possible), we'll never know what the pedal is unless Jacob tells us directly.

Can you link us to the specific song and specific tone within the song via Youtube or similar? We all know how to google things, but we'll get better conversation going if you make it easy for everyone.

It's been a while but the error is still there. Could any mod please take a look at it?

Per Jim's earlier comment, only the Admins/Founders can fix this, and even then, not all the time. You may just have to wait until a site update just purges it naturally.

I've personally had it persist for months on my account. It's annoying, but... I survived.

Once your gear score is over 500, you'll be able to add gear that doesn't have an appropriate Reverb or other retail link. You've submitted more than enough good gear entries to get to 500.

Give us some examples of gear you want to post, and we'll advise on how to handle it. If you seem like you've got a good handle on things, one of us will review a few more items and push you over 500.

How do I link to a newer version of the same gear? For instance, linking Boredbrain Patchulator v2 to Patchulator 8000?

This is now listed under "Recommendations" section. You'd go to the original Patchulator 8000 page and recommend Patchulator v2 and tag that recommendation as a "newer version".

I need someone to delete this or mark it as incorrect, please. https://equipboard.com/pros/dj-technorch?gear=effects-pedals#:~:text=pedals%20at%20the%20start%20of%20DJ%20TECHNORCH%E2%80%99s%20livestream.-,more,-Find%20it%20on%3A

Which pedal? Your link just goes to effects section of that artist.

We all get these when we post something. At least for the past 6-7 years. I agree it would be great to NOT get a notification email for your own submission.

Cant change or delete a submission? I mean change the item completely, not minor revisions.

After 24 hours have passed (maybe 48? Can't remember), nobody can change the item, not even the moderators. But within the window, the original submitter can still change the item.

If there's a submission that you want the moderators to delete outright, so you can start over and submit with the correct item, just let us know.

What would you need that the Push can't do?
I'm considering doing a new surface control based on the original one.

I need it to fit on my desk. It's way too big! ;)

My (belated) 2 cents:

https://imgur.com/PcxS9mb

I've still got a Push 1 that has barely been used sitting in a drawer somewhere. It just had too large a footprint on my desk relative to what it could do for me.

I wish the new Move device they released was just a miniaturized Push 3 (non-standalone), but I understand they need to branch out into new horizons.

This weekend is why everyone should keep a force-ranked Wishlist here on the site.

Ignore the hype and go get exactly what you've been putting off buying all year.

(Virtue-signaling, vague moralizing, smugness, and shameless Equipboard promotion, all in 2 short sentences!)

...regardless of the apparent value of the deal, this holiday season is probably the time to buy anything you need. ... For music gear loaded with imported semiconductors and often made affordable by entirely offshored surface mount pcbs under the hood, these prices are probably the lowest you will see for years...

Good analysis, Jim. Someone had to say it.

You haven't done anything with any of the instruments you've asked to be added. You are asking for very specific things to be added.

I am curious what you plan to do with these things you keep asking for.

We refresh Reverb data every 24 hours, and the pricing could be off if for instance the lowest priced listing sells (which it tends to do so quickly). VAT could also have much to do with the discrepancy.

I think they also just auto-redirect to sellers within the EU, if your cookie or IP confirms EU. I've had a hard time in general finding anything for sale in the US on Reverb while I'm here. I'll re-check later this week to see if that really cheap one went away, but suspect they're just giving you lowest price in USD globally, but re-directing folks in certain areas to sellers that are closer.

Regarding Thomann, we only know what they tell us in their data feed. For the Boss CE-2W the most recent pricing data from them says $225 USD. If you convert that to Swedish Krona, then add 25% VAT, I think then you get to the price you're seeing on Thomann. So it looks like maybe VAT is what accounts for the difference.

Sick! So you really are giving me the the price I'll end up paying after I collect my VAT refund at the airport. Nice :D

Maybe I should pick up a shiny new Gibson while I'm here -- this is me right now, legitimately using EB's price comparison tool to auto-calculate what my post-refund price on an SG Standard would be... very tempting differentials vs. US.

https://imgur.com/HcN8pJQ

Thanks for the update, Michael.

I'm wondering what is going on with the euro-pricing on these product pages?

https://imgur.com/a/2lS7l4q

So yeah, I'm in the nordics right now, and it's cool that Thomann is listed first, as this is probably my best option price-wise, but the price calcs to USD don't match up at all with what options I get if I follow those links to Thomann or Reverb. Even if I calculate and subtract VAT from these prices... they still aren't quite right.

Any ideas what is going on?

EDIT: I'm guessing that the prices I'm seeing in USD are the prices each API is returning, based on US customers only, and you're unable to get any additional info on what product listings and prices the outbound URLs redirect to when users are outside of the US?

Mods can you please add

Name: Fender Stratocaster ST-362F 1988 Vintage Candy Apple Red MIJ Floyd Rose Guitar

An entry this specific can never be used for an Artist submission.

I hope these are guitars you own, and you're just deep, very deep, into the world of golden-age MIJ Fenders?

First impressions:

• The hero/above-fold section feels more focused and a bit cleaner, I like it. The various item photos load a lot faster now, huge improvement there.

• The way the different affiliate prices are displayed is pretty clean and useful.

• Everything after the affiliate prices feels like something I'd be unlikely to find my way to naturally... I don't have the attention span I used to. Either you give me a shortcut to it in the hero section (like Artists and Community Photos) or it's going to get 10% of the attention the other sections get. This isn't necessarily a problem, it's just an observation.

Noticeably absent:

• The hamburger in the top left that opens the left nav panel is missing... are you guys thinking of getting rid of the lefthand panel in favor of that row of drop-down up top? Artist / Gear / Community?

• We can't comment on other user's reviews anymore?

• I'm sensing that the page edit experience is still in-progress? There are a few ways to invoke the old edit page from within the new design, but the old edit page doesn't really match up with the new experience very well. What will the final edit experience be?

• Personally, I still want an "Add to Wishlist" button in the hero section. I want it in place of where the wishlist stats are featured in the hero section of the current design.

On Mobile:

• First pass on mobile looked good, but I feel like the big "Shop from X Stores" button isn't really needed when your screen is at mobile widths, because all that button does is jump you down below the fold to the prices... also, there is already a sticky bottom bar on mobile that doubles the functionality of "Shop from X Stores" so this button is both redundant and eating valuable space at mobile widths... but if y'all just like the way it divides up the space on mobile, it's not the end of the world to leave it be.

have a brilliant day ;)

Thank you kindly, I plan to. ;)

Gibson standard models have Gibson binding if it's a guitar that historically had binding and Gibson binding always has the nibs. I love them, so smooth! I'm not hard on frets so a refret will be someone else's problem.

Well then I'll just make sure anything I buy used has a lot of good years left on the frets and not worry about it.

A stock Gibson nut should handle 11s no problem and likely 12s.

Fingers crossed that 11s will be enough to get down to A#. I'm not after big strings for tone, I just want to find what size it really too small at that tuning, then go one size up from that.

EDIT: Regardless, I always just try the strings I want to use without changing anything but the setup. I'll just adjust action for optimum sustain and minimal amplified buzz, make sure the heck is as straight as I like it, then after 24 to 48 hours at my desired pitch, if the neck hasn't moved I intonate the guitar and live with it for awhile. I don't like to do more work than is required to an instrument, even with electronics I will spend up to a tear with stock parts before I'm certain I feel dissatisfied, then I really think about what I'm missing and how to get it. I'm really fussy about guitar tone, but if I get used to something then it's fine. Why out mire thought into it? If something keeps bugging me more every time I play a guitar then I get out my tools.

I took the same approach with my bass. I'm not somebody who has a pre-baked list of things I swap out on an instrument on purchase-day, I just go by what my hands and/or ears are still bothered by after many many months. If that nut can handle 12s (maybe), then I'm sure it'll be fine. I just remember reaching that point in my Dick Dale phase in high school where I moved up to like 12.5 or some other stupid he-man size, and the nut slot for E was not having it.

... but I liked it, I wanted even more string beef... and so that was my last 6-string... it's been all basses since then.

Maybe I'm destined for a baritone...

Also, I'm glad to be workin' overseas right now, because back home... this would be tempting me right about now

She's a beauty at a very fair price if it's been recapped.

I'll bet you anything the seller was actually in the Rim Pests. Fingers crossed it's still for sale when I get back home.

I always like the way you could drop a blackface fender and it would work fine. I always use those fender eyelet boards to organize the small components because you can get a lot of solder on the eyelets to survive shocks and drastic temperature shifts. Some of it I'll do point to point and I use pretty heavy hookup wire and ground bus.

amen.

...Every 61 reissue I've played has a slim taper and this vintage neck joint that's wobbly. ...

No thanks. I've only ever owned Fenders. The glued joint on Gibsons worries me enough as it is. I'll stick with something beefy.

I've certainly never liked any new ones as much as I like my pre-robot. Also, the plek machine is a bandaid for problems like sloppy tight bond application in the neck pocket. It gets around swelling issues but they always come back as the guitar ages. As gibson has become more of a profit vampire the brand has strayed from its roots. The current management is a far cry from Ted McCarty. I would say Gibson's modern heyday is about 89-90 to 05-07 but YMMV. SG humbucker specials from that era are typically big necks unless it's a special run in a weird finish, then it might slim taper or extra wide fingerboard, really its whatever the lp studio of that special run got.

Fair point re: plek being a bandaid. Ideally, you'd use the analysis pass of the plek to fail any neck that scans as too uneven right out of the chute, rather than using its robo-grinding and polishing to mask fundamental flaws for the first months/years of ownership.

Looking at the 2000s SGs on CL, It's looking like $800-$1200 for specials and even some standards from that era (before haggling, of course)... and there are some G400s that could potentially be one of the good ones for reasonable too. Seeing as how I'll probably have to widen the nut to fit bigger strings for tuning down to A or B, and lord knows what else will need to be tweaked, ground, swapped out or muscled to get it to doom and fuzz but not buzz, probably best I don't start with a pristine new Gibson straight from Nashville either way.

Re: the standards... would the binding have those "nibs" that are gonna break off during re-fret? I too like the feel of binding, but it seems like a major complicating factor when polishing or replacing frets... I've been eyeballing a set of diamond files for touching up frets on my bass, I like working on that stuff... but dealing with binding and glued joints is serious luthier territory.

Wow, that's an insightful question. My experience with a 120L was that it had a huge range of sonic sculpting power on tap usually only available from pedals and rack gear. I found it to be funny f oi r a few minutes testing the ranges of the 3 bands but intensely frustrating after that. The response of the amp was great, fast and snappy! I couldn't get a clean tone that was me although all of them could be good if recorded in the right context. For overdrive I settled on the simplest thing, turn up all the controls and then disl back bass and treble to eliminate harsh overtones and too much thump. These amps have the ability to do bass guitar well. Think john entwistle tones.

So after all that, let me stop digging the question. I suspect that Jus Osborne is really patient with tweaking the fz2 and sound city to the compliment eachother. The fz2 scoop mids switch inherited from the superfuzz combined with boss's active treble and bass circuit offer too much range so there are a lot if potentially bad tones hiding in there. Thus us true of the sound city too, but I would think that the combination of the 2 would allow you to attenuate anything you didn't like from the pedal or boost stuff you like that the pedal only produces with wonky knob positions. I think the guy must have the patience if a saint... or at least of a kevin shields. As to mic placement, that's usually stuff for big budgets. For heavy rock a lot of guys these days follow the Albini approach over the Jimmy page approach. For a record like dopethrone I would expect that 1 or 2 mics straight at the best sounding speaker at an optimal distance would be the method.

Thanks Jim :) So I took that knowledge-bomb and I did some digging. This great video let me hear & see what you've been educating me about. They compare the 50 Plus to a range of other doom-adjacent amps in what is a fairly meticulous apples-to-apples comparison as far as doomYT goes. The Sound City with the active eq really does sculpt and scoop it's way into different territory, and when it sounds most unlike the other amps, it is sounding very EW.

Your boy Ricky B is also a fan.

Also, I'm glad to be workin' overseas right now, because back home... this would be tempting me right about now

You're a true prince, Jim. Thank you. Your demo of the amp sounds great... and it would be awesome to own an amp where I know exactly who to call when it breaks :D

I've only made 2 of them and only my prototype amp has ever had issues because it was a test bed for all my ideas and some spots were soldered and desolder dozens of times. The one I made for a friend has like 5 years in without a hiccup. The goal is to make something that won't need service within the owner's lifetime unless it's regularly abused. If you want a brit tube amp that's going to be in the shop in 5 years just buy a blackstar or jcm2000 series. Or a f*cking mesa. I won't even work on mesas made after 87. I make a lot of decisions based on durability and resistance to occassional abuse like overvoltage or short term impedance mismatches... bad grounding etc.

I didn't mean to imply your amp would break, sorry if that's the way it came across. I know you'd build a brick#$%^house of an amp.

...that said, first, I gotta acquire a guitar, make sure I'm actually enjoying myself on 6-string again, THEN worry about the rest. I'm loving bass at the moment, but 6 string, especially one tuned down, played with a pick, etc, is such a different instrument.

You might not be a USDA certified lunatic so a good stock SG could be fine for you. I hear positive things about Korean made epi SG400s.

I'll try a bunch, Korean, American, whatever and when one comes along with a neck that speaks to my hand, I'll probably buy it. I am planning to try an Allparts neck on my p-bass, specifically because I want a thicker/beefier neck than the C-width shallow 50's neck it came with, and the measurements on the Allparts P necks are downright 70s-ish. So I'm betting I'll like the SGs with the beefier neck, which right now is the Standard, not the vintage-spec stuff, correct?

Pickups... eh... If I'm running it through an FZ-2, I'm not sure pickups will be a key ingredient, but we shall see. I just hate the hum, so as long as they're not P90s, I'll be happy.

Personally I would buy a well loved Gibson USA SG special (modern humbucker version) that's 10 to 20 years old when QC was still high and the fingerboard were always real rosewood. I really prefer the standard but I'm a sucker for overfret binding, for most unbound fretboard aren't important, but I always go for my standard over my special.

I know Gibson really went through a rough patch sometime after grunge died, but they're at least PLEKing everything that comes out of the USA factory now, right? Could a new(ish) one (post-robot) really be that bad?

Looks like it's fixed now?

"Squier Precision" is showing a full size Squier Precision, and there are no photos of any PJ-config Precisions in amongst the other photos for that entry.

I also looked at the schematics for the mark 4 Sound City heads, it had been awhile. That preamp is nutty. It has 1 gain stage per channel followed by the volume controls and mix resistors, then after the 2 channels sum there's essentially a 3 way passive crossover feeding 3 parallel gain stages. The treble, mid and bass controls act as separate master volumes for each crossover frequency and are then bufferedby a final triode to drive the phase inverter. It's not your typical 3 band baxandall like you would expect in an active tube eq. It would never even occur to me build something like that, it's incredibly wasteful but unlike a baxandall it doesn't require a low source impedance to avoid loading the high end of the signal, on the other hand the tone knobs have unrestricted attenuation and if all of them are set to minimum they act like a single master volume control and send all if your signal to ground. WTF? That must have frustrated a lot of guitarists over the years. Even if you just turn one down full minimum you get a really steep filter rather than a shelf or bell. You're just muting a pretty wide frequency range above and/or below those turnover frequencies. Woof! No wonder no one models this thing. The average Helix or AxeFX user will be scratching their heads if they made it behave accurately.

OK, well that explains why nobody has attempted an emulation yet. Impressive knowledge-drop, Jim. Do you wager there's a single magic setting for the amp that we're hearing on the EW albums, with changes to the FZ-2 settings, mic placement, etc being the main tonal diff song to song, or are they deftly able to milk a bunch of great sounds out of this wacky preamp design?

EDIT: If you wanted something new with the general vibe of the SC amps I could build you a 1 channel 50 watt Jim-watt voiced up to your liking with a more sensible active tone section on the bones of a ceriatone heywhat?!504 or weber 6H50 kit or a suitable donor amp like a PA head with good hammond or tried iron. A baxandall hi/low shelving and 1hz bell could be built right into the existing gain stage and cathode follower that drives and biases the hiwatt phase inverter. It'll give you the vibe of the sound city without the quirks and would save a gain stage that could be made a boost or an OD mode. The inputs for the 2nd channel would be replaced with a bright switch and the aforementioned 'boost' switch. The master would be my post phase inverter design that varies global negative feedback to avoid fizzy artifacts although we would want to eliminate the presence knob since the Jim watt version acts in the preamp unlike a fender or marshall and would be replaced by the active hifi type 3 band tone control.

Shipping from the kit company to me and then out to LA oncebuilt might be a bear though. I personally wouldn't charge much for the build time on top of the parts. Its fun.

You're a true prince, Jim. Thank you. Your demo of the amp sounds great... and it would be awesome to own an amp where I know exactly who to call when it breaks :D

...that said, first, I gotta acquire a guitar, make sure I'm actually enjoying myself on 6-string again, THEN worry about the rest. I'm loving bass at the moment, but 6 string, especially one tuned down, played with a pick, etc, is such a different instrument.

We have another guitarist, and he has more of gritty crunch sound.

He has 12/60’s on a schecter with double wound humbuckers into an ampeg ss140c.

I know you guys are tuned way down, but that still make my fingertips hurt just thinking about 12s.

He's rhythm, you're lead?

I can tell you that not long after dopethrone there were 2 rehearsal studios in Philadelphia with sound cities, one of which was a b120 with a blown power transformer that i wound up changing out...

heroic!

... I wouldn't think twice about buying a 50+ in reasonable shape and I would shell out up to a G note on her given their increasing popularity and likely appreciating resale. Probably a wiser investment than gamestop stock lol. Youngsters now see sound city heads as budget hiwatts, a reputation based on the 60s L100 but pretty inaccurate by the 70s. But I would have my electric wizard jollies and when I tired of the b120 I would flip it and go out to 5 star restaurant on the profits :)

You know me too well, Jim... you know what I need hear... damn you.

EDIT: I might try something in the helix family if I were you. Their hiwatt dr103 model sounds pretty good to me and I know hiwatts intimately. It's in the right camp. Punchy.

Noted. A colleague/friend of mine was the Product Lead for the first Helix, the big boy with all the little screens -- he'll be happy to hear you approve of the Townsend Hiwatt modeling. I'll likely borrow one of those and an iridium from my Strymon buddy when I inevitably become unsatisfied with software options.

You gotta keep in mind I haven't played 6-string guitar in 20 years. I have big ol' bass calluses right now, but I still need to get some bar chords back under my fingers and get through a few songs before I've earned the right to spend $$$ on anything more than strings and a cheap pedal.

The sound city b120 is a beast of an amp that utilizes 6, yes 6, el34 output tubes. They're weird active tone control amps that take getting used to... ...There's no other amp that sounds like the mk3 and 4 sound cities, for better or worse.

Nowwww we're gettin' down to it. This is rad, thank you! You're knowledge-bomb lead me to this great write-up:

https://www.vintageguitar.com/22338/sound-city-lb-120-mark-iv/

So what I'm learning is that these Sound City amps were workhorse amps built to a price, but designed by a genius (as you mentioned).

From the article, seems these amps were ubiquitous house/backline amps in UK venues up through the 90s. You either thought they were boring or downright bad (unusual active EQ), or you knew they had magic to give when you cranked them to 11 (assuming this was even possible in the venue they resided).

The EW guys apparently wanted to make Dopethrone with cheap, readily-available gear, thus the MIK Epiphone SGs, Boss pedals and the huge, unloved (at the time) Sound City amps that were probably pretty close to free in 2000 in the UK. Good on them for milking the specialness out of these old beasts. The apparent uniqueness of these amps and the declining number of functional Sound Studio amps in recent years might help explain why this particular album stands out among the rest of their catalog, sonically, at least. (Not to detract from whoever produced and engineered that release, huge chunk of credit and/or infamy there)

I would suggest just purchasing a sound city 50+ head which will sound similar without the need for matched trios of expensive power tubes. Maybe get a reactive load and IR loader like a 2 notes captor X. I don't know that anything else will get you there, its a really unique amplifier line, nothing in common with fender and marshall.

The 50 plus has the same unique preamp as the 120, right? This would sound awesome and be educational, but I don't know if I want to take on a 50+ year old tube amp at this point. Even if it's working and serviced when I get it, it will eventually be a doorstop in need of skilled repair. I want to focus on the fun stuff, and keeping an old amp alive isn't the fun part for me. But I have no reason to disagree with the recommendation: one of these amps would get me closer to the sound I'm hearing than an other style of amp and/or software.

I’m using a standard Tele drop tuned to c standard into a wampler ego compressor running at 18 volts>big muff pi>boss ge-7 split into a twin reverb and a blackstar ht40 mkii black blue.

Nice! I bet that sounds... beefy, but it still cuts through anything you want it to.

Are you the only guitarist or do you share duties?

What size strings work for you down in C?

We play mainly grunge/desert/classic rock.

I’m going to try an AC15 and an av30 in stereo soon as well.

In my (limited) experience, once someone buys a good Vox combo, they tend to keep it... like forever.

[...] I think a boss superfuzz is a big component of electric wizard's tone. Any octave fuzz in the foxx tone machine and univox superfuzz camp will probably work, but not an octavia. It's hard to really talk about doom without talking 50 watt+ tube heads, apart from the melvins who are doom adjacent, volume is a big part of the idiom even in the studio. The sound you hear recorded is usually the live rig. Modelled amps to try would be the laney supergroup, orange or120, hiwatt dr103, any sound city head, marshall super bass, ampeg v4b, vt40 or even an svt. Let me look at what neural dsp has to offer.

OK, based on your great guidance here (thank you), I did some more digging.

Apparently there are a ton of dudes trying to get that EW Dopethrone-era tone. Lots of good YT vids. Also, I sifted through more doom/stoner/sludge tracks to find other players who had that on-record tone I crave, and Monolord's first two records jumped out at me... and what I'm hearing there is (no surprise) nearly the exact same recipe as EW: 24.75" scale guitar tuned all the way down to B (or even Bb or A in some cases... jxsus...), humbuckers that aren't super hot/high-output, Boss FZ-2 Hyper Fuzz, various genre-staple amps and mic'd cabs (lots of Orange) cranked up loud. As for bass, it's various 4-string Rick and P-bass derivatives tuned town to match the guitar, passed through their own FZ-2, Big Muff Bass, or similar, and a mic'd up SVT-based rig.

So this makes things pretty clear for me.

My current outlook re: options for Electric Wizard doom tone:

#1 The real deal studio doom:

• Humbucker-equipped guitar properly setup to handle tuning down to B, Bb/A# or A.
• Boss FZ-2 Hyper Fuzz or clone equivalent (Behringer SF300 or one of many boutique options)
• An amp with the power to get loud AF without screwing up the FZ-2's natural dominance over everything else in the chain. (Sound Studio B120 bass/PA amp was used on Dopethrone).
• mic'd cabinet in a studio space that allows for deafening volume.

#2 Deluxe bedroom doom:

• same guitar
• same pedal
• same amp
• amp attenuator and cab sim. Cab sim could be hardware or software based... but hardware cab sim means not having to worry about latency.

#3 Mid-tier bedroom doom:

• same guitar
• same pedal
• amp AND cab sim, either as hardware (a la Walrus Audio Mako series) or software suite.

#4 Totally ITB doom:

• same guitar
• octave-fuzz, amp and cab sim all in software

EDIT: apart from their Morgan suite, the amps listed on Neural DSP's site seem too metal, neural seems pretty wrong for doom, although Matt Pike is a slo100 man now so you could do high on fire tones...

I started diving into Neural and I see what you mean. I'd demo everything that's demo-able before making the final call, but YT and forum-going doomers seem big on various options from STL, Line 6's native stuff or just a bunch of free options.

As for how I'd go, option #1 just isn't possible for me, but I'd probably pick up a cheap-but-decent SG-style guitar, work on getting it to play well down at B standard (find the right beefy strings, action & truss setup, etc), then add a Behringer SF300 (because why not? it's so cheap). and then start working through my free options for amp and cab sim to see if any of them get me there. If the latency became a drag, I'd start looking to option 3, but with external amp & cab sim.

For bass, I'd just use this as an excuse to add a 5-string to my collection, and live with the fact that it won't have the exact same flabby tone as a 4-string Rick tuned down to B.

Sh!t I see it now. Let me do some photoshopping later. For the submission. Gotta 2 man gods gig Saturday so I need to prepare for that after work... so maybe Sunday I can clean it up

Thanks, Jim. I don't currently have easy access to the color processing tools needed to pump the contrast and better-reveal the hoof graphics that are kinda obscured by glare. Also, it would be more convincing if such forensics came from a second person, rather than it just being me working too hard to try to prove myself right.

How'd the gigs go?

And yet the photo looks solid black.

It's one of these situations:

https://media.wired.com/photos/59327b99a3126458449954cf/master/w_2240,c_limit/Untitled-12.jpg